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Would male disposability be amplified or diluted if we instead had the so called biological imperatives such as pregnancy, menopause, menstruation, cramps, etc?

Luciano700 · 2019-12-02T15:56:20+00:00

We all know how much these imperatives cause emotional turmoil in the name of female advocacy. But I am wondering now to myself if these imperatives would...

Luciano700

December 2, 2019

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/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates

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Title	Would male disposability be amplified or diluted if we instead had the so called biological imperatives such as pregnancy, menopause, menstruation, cramps, etc?
Author	Luciano700
Upvotes	0
Comments	6
Date	December 2, 2019 3:56 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/e50yom/would_male_disposability_be_amplified_or_diluted/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/would-male-disposability-be-amplified-or-diluted.1064350 https://theredarchive.com/post/1064350

Comments

[–]cromulent_weasel -2 points-1 points0 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

I think that male disposability is overblown. There are two main subtexts to it.

Firstly, because women now have more options in society they don't have to put up with shit relationships any more and can happily leave them. To that I say, horay! The sisters of my grandmother were both married to men who were physically abusive. They stayed in those marriages until the men died. I think it's great women no longer have to stay in relationships like that.

The second point about disposability is that men are more likely to be in occupations in which they will die. I am enough of a fan of the free market to think that if men want to work in those jobs, more power to them. And if they they want to work in different occupations, that's ok to. I don't think it's anything to do with 'female advocacy'.

In fact, I do think we kinda have a little bit of a biological imperative towards 'disposability' in terms of having high testosterone levels. Which gives us a little nudge towards doing stupid shit that lowers our life expectancy.

I think so, our sense of help would almost be gone and not to mention, twice the medical attention of women would need to be given to us considering not only are we doing the heavy duty stuff, but also dealing with said biological difficulties

I'm not sure what you are saying here. Women have more trouble getting doctors to take their symptoms seriously than men do. It's just that me don't go to the frigging doctor as often.

Perhaps it would be also worth knowing if sperm would be more or less worthless than what it is now?

This seems like an incel-type statement. In a strict numbers sense an individual sperm is worthless. How many millions or billions of sperm will you 'waste' in your lifetime?

Are you really asking if you think any women out there will want to raise a family with you? Because I think reframing that question is advisable.

[–]Oncefa2left-wing male advocate 5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

I'm not sure what you are saying here. Women have more trouble getting doctors to take their symptoms seriously than men do. It's just that me don't go to the frigging doctor as often.

Vastly more money is spent on women's medical research than on men, despite the fact that men die younger than women. Women have more medical resources available to them, more time to go to the doctor (since they force men to work longer hours to take care of them), and also more benefits like paid medical insurance.

Women are also more likely to be given treatments for medical problems then men, including being more likely to receive pain killers than men, since doctors empathize with women (and their pain) more than men.

This whole thing about men going to the doctor less is really just a misandrist dog whistle at this point. It completely misses the point of men having less time, energy, money (ie insurance), and resources, to go the doctor than women do.

See:

Unsubstantiated reports that women were being underrepresented in medical research has created a large gap against male medical research

Bartlett, E. E. (2001). Did medical research routinely exclude women? An examination of the evidence. Epidemiology, 12(5), 584-586. [HTML] Available from: https://journals.lww.com/epidem/Fulltext/2001/09000/Did_Medical_Research_Routinely_Exclude_Women__An.20.aspx

John Oliver repeats healthcare myths in his coverage of gender bias in the healthcare field. Men Are Human. Available from: https://menarehuman.com/6195-2/

And:

The life expectancy gap is not biological; it cannot be explained by lifestyle choices, and differences in lifestyle choices that do affect this are often caused by disadvantages that men face in society

Desjardins, B. (2004). Why is life expectancy longer for women than it is for men?. Scientific American, 291(6), 120. Available from: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-is-life-expectancy-lo/

Taylor, P. S. (2017). A gender gap that’s a matter of life and death: Canadian men die earlier than women, and it’s not biological. What’s behind this deadly gap, and why doesn’t anyone seem to care? MACLEANS. Available at: https://www.macleans.ca/society/health/a-gender-gap-thats-a-matter-of-life-and-death/

Brønnum-Hansen, H. (2017). Socially disparate trends in lifespan variation: a trend study on income and mortality based on nationwide Danish register data. BMJ open, 7(5), e014489. Available from: https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/7/5/e014489

More deaths from prostate cancer than breast cancer, breast cancer receives 4 times more funding

Siegel Rebecca, L., Miller Kimberly, D., & Jemal, A. (2018). Cancer Facts & Figures 2018. American Cancer Society, CA: a cancer journal for clinicians, 68(1). Published early online at: https://www.cancer.org/latest-news/facts-and-figures-2018-rate-of-deaths-from-cancer-continues-decline.html

Oke, Jason (2018, March 9). Prostate cancer now kills more people than breast cancer: cause for alarm?. The BMJ, BMJ EBM Spotlight. Available from: https://blogs.bmj.com/bmjebmspotlight/2018/03/09/prostate-cancer-now-kills-more-people-than-breast-cancer-cause-for-alarm/

Men die earlier but women's health gets four times more funding. Prostate Cancer Foundation NZ. Retrieved January 3, 2014, from https://prostate.org.nz/2014/01/men-die-earlier-womens-health-gets-four-times-funding/

Differences in funding and awareness for men's health problems

May, C. (2010). Does Obamacare discriminate against men?. DAILY CALLER. http://dailycaller.com/2010/12/10/does-obamacare-discriminate-against-men/

Government's Huge Cancer Funding Gender Gap. http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2009/08/governments-cancer-funding-gender-gap.html?m=1

[–]cromulent_weasel 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Vastly more money is spent on female medical research than on men

But the flipside of that is that most medical research was actually carried out on men and dosages for women were just scaled as if they were small men.

There's a lot of research spent on women but that's because basically everything else was male centric.

Women are also more likely to be given treatments for medical problems then men, including more likely to receive pain killers than men, since doctors empathize with women (and their pain) more than men.

Do you have evidence for this? Because this woudl seems to contradict your thesis. Women were seen as hysterical or malingerers or their pain wasn't considered legitimate at a FAR higher rate than men were.

This whole thing about men going to the doctor less is really just a misandrist dog whistle at this point.

No it's not. It's something we need to dig into more. Being 'stoic' to the detriment of your health isn't admirable, it's stupid. Let's acknowledge weakness and move more towards resiliency and health.

[–]Oncefa2left-wing male advocate 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

But the flipside of that is that most medical research was actually carried out on men and dosages for women were just scaled as if they were small men.

There's a lot of research spent on women but that's because basically everything else was male centric.

No offense but you're just talking in circles right here. I have sources, lots of sources, backing up the claim that vastly more money is spent on women. It is, if you'll excuse me, a fact, and not really debatable at this point (unless you want to contradict official government data on the topic).

Do you have evidence for this? Because this woudl seems to contradict your thesis. Women were seen as hysterical or malingerers or their pain wasn't considered legitimate at a FAR higher rate than men were.

I'll check it out. I don't have sources about this. I've just seen the claim made in the past (specifically about opioide pain pills -- women are more likely to be prescribed these than men, although it could be that doctors are biased and assume that men are more likely to be drug dealers).

No it's not. It's something we need to dig into more. Being 'stoic' to the detriment of your health isn't admirable, it's stupid. Let's acknowledge weakness and move more towards resiliency and health.

Again, I provided several sources about this. Men go to the doctor less because they don't have as much time, energy, or money (and gender specific subsidies), compared to women.

Also there has been no link made between frequency of doctor visits between men and women, and life expectancy. Instead things like workplace health problems, stress, suicide, and lack of funding for men's health research, are the primary drivers of this trend.

[–]cromulent_weasel 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

No offense but you're just talking in circles right here. I have sources, lots of sources, backing up the claim that vastly more money is spent on women.

You are spinning and moving the goal posts here. First you talk about medical research and now you are talking about money spent on service delivery. Those are not the same things.

It is, if you'll excuse me, a fact

I am happy to have a fact based discussion but not one where the baseline parameters keep changing or where the goal is points scoring.

Men go to the doctor less because they don't have as much time, energy, or money (and gender specific subsidies), compared to women.

I think that this is the culture bit that needs to change. What's a good narrative mind worm to help share the concept? Why take your car in for a checkup more than you take yourself in for a checkup?

Also there has been no link made between frequency of doctor visits between men and women, and life expectancy. Instead things like workplace health problems, stress, suicide, and lack of funding for men's health research, are the primary drivers of this trend.

Yes, I agree. And the gap is narrowing as women work more stressful jobs.

p.s. Thanks for this discussion, I think it has been productive and respectful.

[–]C0dey 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link