~ archived since 2018 ~

Toxic ideas about woman - Damage

Mean_Mechanic9889 · 2023-01-05T22:34:43+00:00

It's been really helpful hearing people's ideas and perceptions on this sub and I've started to think the damage redpill does is making...

Mean_Mechanic9889

January 5, 2023

17 upvotes

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Post Information

Title	Toxic ideas about woman - Damage
Author	Mean_Mechanic9889
Upvotes	17
Comments	19
Date	January 5, 2023 10:34 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/ExRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/exredpill/comments/104cho5/toxic_ideas_about_woman_damage/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/ExRedPill/toxic-ideas-about-woman-damage.1146874 https://theredarchive.com/post/1146874

Comments

[–]plotthick 3 points4 points5 points 3 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–]LCBrianC 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]plotthick 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]LCBrianC 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Mean_Mechanic9889[S] 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago* (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]plotthick 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago* (6 children) | Copy Link

I think we understand female culture allot better,

"Female" is perjorative.

"Female culture" is an incel/manchild myth. It's so dumb I can't imagine what it means. As if Vietnamese sisters learning their fourth language before they're 16 have any relation to me, old and fat, debating whether to buzz my head or go shovel dog poo.

plus when you think about it redpill is basically all about woman, but in a sort of object-y way.

Redpill is the Patriarchy in a different wrapping.

"Objecy-y way" is, I hope, Objectification. You may wish to look this up to see of I'm right, and maybe while you're at look at both definitions of The Male Gaze.

It sounds creepy

The Patriarchy is always creepy. Also deadly.

untill you remember some woman act excactly the same way about men. (Talk about them not to them)

Yes, that's the Patriarchy. Patriarchal men talk about man this way too, always have. What were "cannon fodder" and " the expendable lower classes" are now " beta cucks", or in my day "scrubs".

Not sure why you think it's ok since some women think this way about men. This is so alien. Like looking at a tomato and a tomato flower and thinking they're from different mammals.

May be poor idea

What? Do you mean a bad idea? If you're ESL please tell me so I can turn on that filter, understand you better.

but I find it crazy how similar each is, looking across the broad spectrum of behaviour in each sex.

I sincerely doubt your experience here allows you to draw such a conclusion, but... what similarity are you talking about?

We seem to communicate poorly though

Uh, yeah.

[–]Mean_Mechanic9889[S] 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link

Female culture: do men get whistled at, do woman have an expectation to pay on the first date, do we have mixed gender sleep overs growing up? If you think men and woman don't have different social experiences in most regains of the world, I'm not sure where you live.

The redpill community Is exactly negatively obsessed with woman and thier differant position in the world to them.

You seem rattled, I'm happy to debate your ideas, but maybe when you're in a better mood?

Some "Feminism" can be as unhealthy as misogyny. A collective without diverse ideas and life experience can become twisted. Particularly when the collective "idea" is a preoccupation to how much easier the opposite sex has it.

I'm not sure how you're now contradicting yourself on men and woman's social differences. Do you believe we're different or similar?

Men and woman both have similar wants, desires (inversed sometimes), similar personality variation. But we biologically have different gender roles. And so then different traditional expectations of us etc.

I'm abit begrudged to explain how men and woman are both human beings with opposing private parts but this is possibly apart of the problem?

[–]plotthick 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

Before we get into the meat of this, let's talk about discussing ideas. The quality of discussion has a hierarchy. Here is an article on it: https://bigthink.com/personal-growth/how-to-disagree-well-7-of-the-best-and-worst-ways-to-argue/ It's long and worth a read, but the only thing truly relevant this morning is that triangle picture up in the corner. Here it is on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Graham%27s_Hierarchy_of_Disagreement.svg

I will be referring to this pyramid as I go through your response because it is a good standard, it is logical and proven, and it will help us stay on track. I'll be referring to this pyramid as a way to ensure logic, consistency, and because the pyramid was made by a man, you might take it seriously. Now let's get to the discussion.

Female culture: do men get whistled at, do woman have an expectation to pay on the first date,

Culture is " is an umbrella term which encompasses the social behavior, institutions, and norms found in human societies, as well as the knowledge, beliefs, arts, laws, customs, capabilities, and habits of the individuals in these groups."

Catcalling and who pays on dates are two things cis het men do to or with women. They are not "female culture". Your premise is wrong. This is a refutation of your basic premise about "female culture", so it's a refutation of your central point, the top of the pyramid.

do we have mixed gender sleep overs growing up?

Not sure who "we" is. I didn't, and I'm a female, so this can't be an example of your "female culture". Therefore this is a refutation of your central point, the top of the pyramid.

NOTE: There are definitely things that could be called women's cultures but only for each gender role, in each socioeconomic group, in their ethnicity, in their local society. This is explicitly not a monolithic "female culture". Middle-class 18-to-25 year old WASPy women in the Western world is probably what you're thinking of as "female culture".

This slice of humanity is not monolithic to all women or even a small subset. While 21 year old Paige is contemplating going out with Thaddeus, one block over 21 year old Orthodox Jew Hannah is contemplating her impending arranged marriage. While these women are the same skin shade, age, socioeconomic level, live close, and share the same servies, they do not share a culture.

Both of those women are completely different from Ana, a child bride recovering from her last rape, who is very different from Georgina, who is a trust-fund Trans woman. These women are the same age and pass each other on the street but would not even really be able to talk to each other, much less share a "female culture".

These very plausible examples prove that there is no "female culture" of all women everywhere, nor even of women who are similar in many ways. That's why I said "'Female culture' is an incel/manchild myth." When people brainwashed by the Manosphere say "female culture", they are talking only about women who they think are fuckable, and the culture they're talking about is, they believe, what's getting in the way of these women letting the men fuck them.

This is a very alien viewpoint to me. I mean, I see how the Patriarchy brainwashes young men into thinking like this -- these myths make it so much easier to control men -- but it's so alien to me. And dumb. Thinking this way makes it harder to get human women as partners. Though it does give access to vituperative and escalating echochambers in the manosphere, so I guess they've got that going for them.

That was a refutation of your original central point, with bonus expansion to show how I understand what you're actually trying to say, but then refuting that, too: double top of the argument pyramid.

(end part 1)

[–]plotthick 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

If you think men and woman don't have different social experiences in most regains of the world, I'm not sure where you live.

I said "'Female culture' is an incel/manchild myth." To twist that into "men and women don't have different social experiences" is an Informal Fallacy called "Quoting out of Context". It also intimates that I'm too stupid for compassion or understanding, which is an Ad Hominem.

This is a bad faith argument where one restates the other's words in such a way as to make it easy to refute. As it stands, your response here is very far down the pyramid and doesn't deserve refutation... especially because I didn't actually say it.

The redpill community Is exactly negatively obsessed with woman and thier differant position in the world to them.

It's a baffling hobby, but wevs.

You seem rattled, I'm happy to debate your ideas, but maybe when you're in a better mood?

This is an example of misogynistic Tone Policing, a personal attack very far down on the pyramid. It is used often against women, as a way to gaslight that they're irrational and silly and not worth listening to. Here is how hold old and tired this tactic is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tone_policing

My general refutation was 2nd tier near the top of the pyramid. It also refuted your central point by being logical and cool when you think I'm "rattled" and "in a (bad) mood". Two top-level responses, I'll take that! :)

Some "Feminism" can be as unhealthy as misogyny. A collective without diverse ideas and life experience can become twisted. Particularly when the collective "idea" is a preoccupation to how much easier the opposite sex has it.

These unsupported statements are just Contradiction, kinda far down the pyramid. They don't really make sense; there is no central point. When you have better statements they can be responded to, so feel free.

I'm not sure how you're now contradicting yourself on men and woman's social differences. Do you believe we're different or similar?

This is what I meant by "alien ideas". I'm not sure to what you are referring. Gender roles? Genital differences? Brain functioning? Hormonal changes? Difference in upbringing leading to emotional processing differences? There are a number of differences, but you seem to think there is only one and you seem to think it's so obvious you don't need to say it, and that I'm stupid for not already knowing it. That I don't know what you mean explicitly refutes your central point here.

I think that the main problem with your statements here is, again, they don't really make sense. So again, feel free to make better statements so they can be responded to cogently. My response here could be the top of the pyramid, but I'll take the second tier as just a refutation.

Men and woman both have similar wants, desires (inversed sometimes), similar personality variation. But we biologically have different gender roles. And so then different traditional expectations of us etc.

I'm abit begrudged to explain how men and woman are both human beings with opposing private parts but this is possibly apart of the problem?

This pair of paragraphs pairs two different ideas: gender roles and genitals. Bad conflation. As I proved above, people with similar situations almost never have similar cultures. Again, these statements don't really make sense; feel free to restate and try again.

Also: the last paragraph pretends that I don't know the differences between penises and vaginas, and that the difference is the same thing as gender roles, and that I don't understand any of that. It's misrepresenting everything I said, and calling me dumb.

This is very, very far down on the pyramid. Since your statement is essentially an Ad-Hom wrapped up in an unclear, unsupported assertion, my clear and logical response here both refutes your central point, refutes it in general, and points out the weak sauce of trying to call me dumb.

This is all of the top of the argument pyramid, against your bottom-tier misogynistic Ad-Hom insinuations.

Wrap-Up: I hope you read some of the links above. I tried to find ones that were written by men so you wouldn't dismiss them out of hand. Much of your response was misogynistic, taunting, uninformed, and overly simplistic. If you cannot have a logical, well-supported, cited-where-applicable argument... please don't bother. I've been a woman on chatboards for three decades now, you will not find an Ad-Hom or threat that will phaze me.

I note that you specifically avoided discussing my main points, which is either intellectually dishonest, or could show that you know where it leads and prefer to cling to your existing world views. That's fine -- learning new things and shifting your views is very VERY hard -- but please don't attempt to use others to shore up your denial. We are not tools for your willful cognitive dissonance; waste your own time pondering your pile of precious garbage.

Although... this was fun. About once a month I enjoy taking out my logic and debate classes and exercising them on a misogynistic, fascist, or alt-right maggat. It's always nice to be able to prove:

I know how to argue on the internet
probably better than you
and I can prove it
and I know our subject matter better
including your side of it
because I've had these conversations many, many times
probably with better interlocutors
at many stages through the development of your echo chambers
and I've done the reading
and have already drawn irrefutable conclusions
and know many different fun ways to display them
and know that you won't accept them... yet
but I hope someone else will
because reducing ignorance, downshifting stupidity, coaxing people from cognitive dissonance, improving communication, and lifting the discourse is the best things humans can do for each other.

So, yeah, this was fun. Stroked my ego a lil. Thanks.

(End Part 2, end of delightful diversion)

[–]Mean_Mechanic9889[S] 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

"Taking out your logic on a misogynistic maggot"

It was allot to get through so I worked backwards in the hopes of a summery. And got a littla past you congratulated your self on your how you felt an ego tickle over your own reddit essay to me .

You're proving my point, you act allot like someone in redpill, narcasistic, belittling, emotionally unhealthy, agressive. But you're a female version of it,. I've not even found the motivation to read your overly enpassioned, work of self image in the world. Aimed at the rest of us. But you may have some good points if you can just behave decently enough towards others to interest them in them.,

For as far as you have interested me, you've confirmed my world view of relatively equal character dispersal through our the slightly sexually dimorphic sexes. An the anecdotal evidence of your female character traits seeming like the inverse or redpill anger etc. You're clearly an angry transphobe, unless ypuve misunderstood my point, so I'll leave this here lol

[–]plotthick 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Mean_Mechanic9889[S] 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]plotthick 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Mean_Mechanic9889[S] 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]plotthick 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]waffleznstuff30 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]JesusBloodIsFranzia 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link