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Canadian Men & Boys Movement Leader: "Men & Boys Advocacy Is Intrinsically on the Left"

Real-External392 · 2023-02-04T02:56:39+00:00

I wouldn't be surprised if some of the people here get up and cheer! In this clip, Justin Trottier, head of Canada's biggest advocacy...

Real-External392

February 4, 2023

65 upvotes

/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates

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Title	Canadian Men & Boys Movement Leader: "Men & Boys Advocacy Is Intrinsically on the Left"
Author	Real-External392
Upvotes	65
Comments	19
Date	February 4, 2023 2:56 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/10t36ea/canadian_men_boys_movement_leader_men_boys/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/canadian-men-boys-movement-leader-men-boys.1150980 https://theredarchive.com/post/1150980

Comments

[–]a-man-from-earthleft-wing male advocate 19 points20 points21 points 3 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]Real-External392[S] 12 points13 points14 points 3 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]ignigenaquintus 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Real-External392[S] 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]ignigenaquintus 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Real-External392[S] 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]ignigenaquintus 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

Sorry about the joke. I liked the video. Maybe it would be interesting to know how does he believe that the MRA came to be considered inherently right wing in the first place (once it does these things kind of become a self-fulfilled prophecy). My take is that feminism actually oppose to the idea that men’s issues are relevant or deserve visibility as well as the idea that we aren’t born as blank pieces of paper (blank slate) and therefore they immediately portrayed it as inherently misogynistic and right-wing even though it’s origins are clearly on the left.

Also his take on him just talking about the extremists on that side rather than the main branches of feminism with political and cultural power, from a narrative point of view is the right message to send to left leaning individuals but imo it’s a clear not true Scotsman fallacy. Like I like moderation, but adhering to the mental framework of the people opposing your objectives isn’t necessarily desirable.

[–]Real-External392[S] 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Banake 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Real-External392[S] 4 points5 points6 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm glad you enjoyed it. Yes, those were very exciting times. Watching it all implode was surreal. Seeing all the unreason, lack of skepticism toward feminist claims, the intolerance of joking about or discussing certain things in non-prescribed ways - it was baffling. It's like, "I thought WE were the reasonable ones! I thought WE were the skeptical ones! I thought WE were the edgy ones! What the hell is going on, here!?". Were a Christian, homeopath, or chemtrail believer to come into our group and start espousing their beliefs or getting bent out of shape about jokes that they didn't like, they'd have a swarm of atheists pointing out every flaw in their argument, reminding them that they don't have a right not to be offended, etc. But you switch them with an angry feminist and probably 65% of those who would have spoken up immediately self-neutered. Very disillusioning.

[–]hottake_toothache 7 points8 points9 points 3 years agolocked comment (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]Real-External392[S] 8 points9 points10 points 3 years agolocked comment (7 children) | Copy Link

As Justin said, the movement doesn't have a home on the modern left or right. But philosophically, it is at home on the left.

To look at it from a Jordan Peterson perspective, the right is about things like hierarchy (ideally competence based) and tradition. The left is about fighting for people who get left behind in hierarchies, and about not getting so stuck in tradition that we shoot ourselves in the foot. Even the most legitimate of competence based hierarchies is gonna lead certain people behind. And sometimes our traditional views on male vs female roles, traits, etc., will harm certain males and females who can't fit the role. Male and female advocacy movements are about helping those who are believe left behind or harmed by hierarchies and tradition. As such, I would say that both feminism and men and boys' advocacy are inherently on the left. A more right-leaning perspective would probably be something like: we've got a good system going, it has worked for a long time, most of us can live up to our responsibilities in the system, these people toward the bottom need to shape up and take personal responsibility and get with the program.

But you're right, the modern left won't touch this stuff. This shows a great lack of sophistication and a surplus of bigoted prejudicial views.

[–]hottake_toothache 2 points3 points4 points 3 years agolocked comment (6 children) | Copy Link

Here is my counter-argument that men's issues has a more natural home on the right (though, of course, I support sympathy for men, regardless of what direction it comes from).

The left/right distinction relates to how much central planning/authority/government you want society to have. The right is skeptical of the government's ability to provide useful solutions. This is because those solutions need to be crafted by bureaucrats, who are limited by their own prejudices and lack of information. The left trusts the bureaucrats more, and thus wants more government involvement.

Like most humans, the bureaucrats are prejudiced to view men as disposable. As a result, more government power will mean catering to the needs of women and more disregard for the needs of men. The central authority will care for those whom they care about.

Thus, the right's agenda (of diminishing government control and leaving more int he realm of personal autonomy) is more aligned with men's issues.

[–]Real-External392[S] 3 points4 points5 points 3 years agolocked comment (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]mbrenizs 4 points5 points6 points 3 years agolocked comment (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Real-External392[S] 2 points3 points4 points 3 years agolocked comment (2 children) | Copy Link

I don't have that impression of the L/R spectrum.

Why it makes sense to view men and boys' issues advocacy on the left:
* It's not simply advocating for males for the sake of advocating for males; it's recognizing that there are issues that affect many men and boys in seriously harmful ways; this is true of members of just about any group.

A core function of the left is to be a voice for those who are falling behind, struggling, not fitting in with the mainstream, etc.
Since men and boys' advocacy is about being a voice and a helping hand to men and boys who are struggling in ways that relate to men and boys'-specific issues (e.g., divorce and family court disfavoring the man; the problems faced by boys without fathers (girls have problems with this, too, of course - but I'd venture that it's worse on boys), etc., this cause would fit within the purview of the left's core function of helping those who are struggling, etc. This isn't a movement about helping men and boys who are crushing it crush it even more ;)

[–]hottake_toothache 2 points3 points4 points 3 years agolocked comment (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]a-man-from-earthleft-wing male advocate[M] 2 points3 points4 points 3 years agolocked comment (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]MaintenanceOwn773 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link