Die Like a Man: The Toxic Masculinity of Breaking Bad (WARNING SPOILERS) an interesting article about masculinity in Breaking Bad

SwanOfAvon22 · 2013-10-29T21:13:17+00:00

Oh the ironies of feminism. On the one hand, they claim men get respect as men, regardless of what they do or who they are, and on the other they act shocked when a good man (smart, kind, good husband and father) like Walter White receives no respect from society and even his wife (recall the opening birthday handjob scene, my god).

The truth is that men learn from an early age that the path to respect is through money, power and status, not kindness, intelligence and whatever other innate qualities should matter. We learn this from society at large and from women, who show every preference for strength/money/power/status over kindness and intelligence by themselves.

femdelusion · 2013-10-29T17:47:26+00:00

It's easy to blame men for not talking, but does anyone actually listen when they do? Think about how the MRM has been received. Does anyone actually want to listen? Or would they rather belittle men talking about their experiences, shame them, call them 'misogynists', and tell them, in the words of Big Red, to SHUT THE FUCK UP?

It strikes me that men not talking about their feelings is a perfectly rational adaptation based on their experience of what happens when they do. It's hard to listen to people. I mean, to really listen. It takes trust, and a shitload of empathy. (I'd recommend watching Carl Rogers on this).

For me, the most memorable scene in BB was the 'talking pillow' scene, because it revealed the superficiality of the women's understanding of 'listening'. To them, it was simply a matter of sitting everyone round in a circle and enforcing a rule of one person speaking at a time. They assumed themselves to be capable of listening, and yet they clearly were not, as was revealed when the one rule set was broken in an instant when Walt did open up. They shut him down in an outburst of their emotions. The talking pillow was revealed as a manipulative fraud, a device that allowed only the women to talk, and for the men to be silenced.

intensely_human · 2013-10-29T20:29:13+00:00

The unwillingness to let a slight go unpunished is not a masculine trait. It is the trait of anyone who must protect themselves in the absence of a protecting police force.

The only reason most animals do not do this is because they live in a world where anonymity is easy. But if you put two animals in a cage, of any gender, they will fight until they establish dominance.

Tit-for-tat is the optimal policy solution to the prisoner's dilemma, and the math which arises from game theory is gender neutral and independent of culture.

This is why the Cold War played out as it did: with no nukes being fired. The only time that a nuke was fired on this planet at people, was in the very beginning when no nuclear retaliation was possible.

The only reason that women do not usually display this trait of retaliation is that they can generally count on others retaliating for them. Men are in their own, and hence must bear their teeth and promise to bite back like any creature with a nervous system in the known universe.

source: a lifetime of being an open target for violence

Retaliation is not some silly cultural phenomenon: it is the behavior of intelligence in the face of the laws of the universe. The only people who do not learn to retaliate are the ones who are protected. When you're a criminal, you are not protected.

TracyMorganFreeman · 2013-10-30T00:13:29+00:00

I'll start taking "toxic masculinity" seriously when women of their own volition doing things that are harmful to other women or hold themselves back in some way is called "toxic femininity" and not "internalized misogyny".

2013-10-30T06:28:26+00:00

BB is a show - it flirts with a lot of themes, a lot of conservative / libertarian ideas even, and a lot of various versions of masculinity, and how various characters perceptions of masculinity are both liberating and damning.

But it doesn't espouse one philosophy - perhaps other than the idea of "ambition catches up with you". Just like WW is not a conservative hero simply because he is very "no handouts, I work for every cent I make, charity is shameful," BB does not "espouse toxic masculinity" as a core concept, simply because it has flawed characters.

What I'm saying is, this article is complete and utter crap. Walter White is a toxic character and his masculinity is important, but it is not his masculinity that is toxic. His ego, his need for absolute domination, his arrogance, his belief that he can micromanage his family through sheer acting, etc that all is toxic. But not his masculinity.

In fact, the examples of toxic masculinity throughout the show are the opposite of this article is commenting on. Toxic masculinity would be when Gus manipulates Walter into working for him by saying basically "a man provides. You sacrifice your life to work for me because that will make you a good provider, which is the extent of your worth as a man." That is toxic.

Walter White believing that he has a right to die on his own terms, to be the master of his own fate, is not toxic. It's the foundation of this country, it's "Give me liberty of give me death."

BB explores the idea of a self-determined fate, and it's outlook is very grim for men. Look what a man has to do to retain ownership of his own life and not to live as a slave! Walter White starts out as a downtrodden man under the control of a dominating, emasculating wife, a provider who is aging prematurely because of his two strenuous underpaid jobs. Was it all worth it in this end, to die as a man who had at least tasted achievement and freedom once in his life?

You're goddamn right.

And is he still a toxic character? Of course. But his toxicity was created by the system, by a society that basically shitted on him from being a talented man from day 1. This is why Walter White remains a hero to me, even to the bitter end. He was presented with the ultimate catch-22 "You have cancer. Fight it and die, crawling on your feed, bankrupt and reduced a shell by medications, living parasitically off the goodwill of a man you detest. Or you can not accept the charity and die sooner, perhaps within a month, having known nothing but struggle and emasculation your whole life."

A good man, in the eyes of this author, would have chosen A or B, because men are toxic if they don't want to live within the narrow confines of what society deems acceptable. You can choose to become a slave in this fashion or that fashion. But if you don't choose one of those options, you're "toxic".

lowfr3q · 2013-10-29T21:00:42+00:00

WOW you put that spoiler tag after the biggest spoiler of the whole entire series are you serious?

Title	Die Like a Man: The Toxic Masculinity of Breaking Bad (WARNING SPOILERS) an interesting article about masculinity in Breaking Bad
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	24
Comments	21
Date	October 29, 2013 5:27 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1ph5u6/die_like_a_man_the_toxic_masculinity_of_breaking/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/die-like-a-man-the-toxic-masculinity-of-breaking.1160150 https://theredarchive.com/post/1160150

Comments