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I'm really pissed.

backlash1992

July 18, 2013

5 upvotes

/r/MensRights

http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1iiya8/im_really_pissed/

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Post Information

Title	I'm really pissed.
Author	backlash1992
Upvotes	5
Comments	25
Date	July 18, 2013 12:49 AM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1iiya8/im_really_pissed/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/im-really-pissed.1168524 https://theredarchive.com/post/1168524

Comments

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 13 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]backlash1992[S] -1 points0 points1 point 13 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]backlash1992[S] 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]backlash1992[S] 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]backlash1992[S] 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]backlash1992[S] 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]rightsbot 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Enigmutt 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]backlash1992[S] 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Enigmutt 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]backlash1992[S] 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]sillymod[M] 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]Enigmutt 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]sillymod 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]backlash1992[S] 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]ragingpineapple 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Unless either one of you forced the other, both of you consented to behavior that has a non-zero chance of producing offspring. The difference is that most of your legal options end after sex. You can have a problem with that situation, and you can feel the need to legislate outcomes that are more fair to those involved, but don't act like you were forced or had no say in the matter.

Nature doesn't care about fair, it cares about what works, and what works is that women become pregnant and men do not. Because of that reality, certain concessions have to be made. One of them being that there is not a clear cut way to make it "fair". My advice? Put your aggression into finding a way to make pregnancy an opt-in scenario instead of an opt-out, since apparently you and most everyone else in the debate can't seem to understand that having sex is opting-in to possible parenthood and all the responsibilities that come with it.

[–]backlash1992[S] 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]ragingpineapple 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

If you view abortion as a do-over then you're going to have a hard time accepting an outcome that is even remotely fair to both parties.

he may not have that option just because he was born male

He may not have that option because of who he chose to put his dick in. Again, you're acting like the father has no say in the matter, when the father does, and again the difference between fathers and mothers is that the father's choices end after the deed is done, AND YET AGAIN this is a biological constraint that you simply cannot rationalize you're way out of.

No, forcing a woman to proceed with a pregnancy against her will is not an acceptable extension of the father's right to choose. What you want, is for 2 people who have engaged in an activity, and who disagree with the outcome, to have the ability to independently choose separate outcomes for themselves, and I would hope your intention would be to be fair about it. It doesn't take much thought to realize the impossibility of this, given how pregnancy works in humans. Want it to work? Find a way to noninvasively remove the fertilized embryo, grow it outside of a woman's womb, and make it dirt cheap. Then see if the pro-choicers are okay with that, since they'd lose the "edge" they currently have.

So long as human pregnancy is intimately tied to using the body of one of the sexes, you're going to be at odds with how this abortion thing plays out. I agree that a lack of personal responsibility is to blame for the majority of abortions, but the guy in your hypothetical needs to understand that if he wanted a child, it was his responsibility to have sex with someone who felt the same way. Sex is all fun and games until shit gets serious, and maybe more focus needs to be spent hammering that into people from a very young age. Our whole society is adverse to responsibility, it's just extremely prevalent in regards to abortion and it's rarely called out as being so.

[–]backlash1992[S] 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I'm not talking about it as a do over, although many people see it that way.

Unless it was rape, it was her decision too, takes two to have sex. What I disagree with is that his choice should be over after sex. Guys aren't emotionless, we could value the unborn baby's life. He may view it as the death of his first born son/daughter. In which case I don't see why it being her body is an issue.

Now, this is going to be a bit of a stretched analogy, but bare with me here.

Lets say I have something of value to someone... like a TV, and its taking up all the back seats in my car. The TV belongs to both myself, and my room-mate, and he has no where else to put it. Because it is uncomfortable for me to have the TV in the back of my car, does that mean I can throw it out? After I've already agreed to have it back there? No. Its half someone elses. Thats my point. The baby is not just the mothers, its the fathers too.

[–]ragingpineapple 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

He may view it as the death of his first born son/daughter. In which case I don't see why it being her body is an issue.

It's not an either-or situation. I, for example, am an atheist that doesn't buy that abortion isn't killing. I believe it's morally wrong in the vast majority of cases. I also believe that the circumstances surrounding the few pregnancies caused by rape and incest, are used to justify what's largely an aversion to responsibility for one's own actions. I also understand that I don't get to dictate what someone does or does not do with their own body, and that pregnancy is something that happens to a woman's body. I hold my views and understand holding views does not give me the right to impose those views on others. I also understand that I have a say in the matter prior to impregnating any woman, and I also understand that nature sought fit to create a circumstance where a woman carries the pregnancy, and that that creates an inherently "unfair" number of options for her past conception. My emotions, the value I put on life, my view on abortion don't ever change that.

If you view abortion as murder, and don't want to accept women's autonomy in regards to their bodies, then take responsibility for your penis and stop putting babies in murderous women. If that's really what you believe.

Lets say I have something of value to someone... like a TV, and its taking up all the back seats in my car. The TV belongs to both myself, and my room-mate, and he has no where else to put it. Because it is uncomfortable for me to have the TV in the back of my car, does that mean I can throw it out? After I've already agreed to have it back there? No. Its half someone elses. Thats my point. The baby is not just the mothers, its the fathers too.

This analogy in no way represents a pregnancy, and the fact that you would need to make that much of a stretch should indicate how far off center your view is. Women aren't cars that you put babies in and can take out at will, while maintaining the viability of the baby. And assuming you and your roommate share ownership of the TV, you likely agreed to the shared ownership and responsibility prior to the TV being placed into the car. Which is what you ought to be doing prior to putting a baby in a woman: agreeing to who's baby it is and what the outcome is going to be.

Judging by the responses you're getting, you're clearly not going to find the kind of support you're looking for here.

[–]backlash1992[S] 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link