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Semantogymnastics about Microconsent

Monky11

June 22, 2018
13 upvotes
/r/MensRights
https://culturalanalysis.net/2017/12/02/semantogymnastics-about-microconsent/?epc_purge_single=1
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Post Information
Title Semantogymnastics about Microconsent
Author

Monky11

Upvotes 13
Comments 12
Date June 22, 2018 1:05 PM UTC
(8 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/8t16ep/semantogymnastics_about_microconsent/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/semantogymnastics-about-microconsent.1177216
https://theredarchive.com/post/1177216
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Comments

[–]chadwickofwv 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Why the hell has this been downvoted? Was it brigaded?

[–]headingtoshore 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

It's a bit of a meme for people to say 'i don't want to talk about semantics' even if they have no understanding of what semantics is, so there's that.

Also the title 'Semantogymnastics about Microconsent' has the sound of feminist philosophy to it, and will get downvotes from people who look no further. Same with the thumbnail, thumbnail may get kneejerk up votes and down votes so maybe that will balance out.

The article is quite correct in all of it's assertions, there is nothing new here, it seems like a 'get it off my chest' piece by someone who is just sick of the stalled conversation around consent.

sex is magic in current year and people do not want to face that. we have actual witch hunts against people who are accused with no evidence of harming women in undetectable ways.

He said something, was that sexual assault? I don't know - might as well tie him to a rock and see if he floats because there is no detectable way to tell.

be in the safe side, burn him.

this is america. this is the UK. this is the entire western world, lost in the mire of superstition - now with 60% more sex. sex sells.

[–]Monky11 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

The title is a parody of postmodernist, feminist ideology...

[–]headingtoshore 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

yeah but the question I was addressing was 'why did it get downvoted'. i liked the article and recommended it to 2 friends since having read it earlier.

[–]Monky11 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Don't know. I found many good articles in the past got immediately downvoted, not just here.

[–]headingtoshore 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

this article is the only thing returned by google on a search for the word Semantogymnastics. this article and 2 pages of references to it.

[–]slacktivist0 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

An especially curious legal artefact is the implied consent. When you enter a hospital as a patient you supposedly consent to whatever treatment doctors believe is vitally and immediately necessary, even if they would have to restrain you to complete the treatment. They will obviously not let you walk out half way through a surgical procedure. The same implication applies to security screenings at airports: once you begin the screening it is implied that you have consented to be Fully screened. From that point on you cannot back out, cannot change your mind. If you are hit by a car and remain unconscious you may be subjected to medical intervention without even implying consent.

[–]thrway_1000 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Feminism is trying to outlaw normal human interaction and the relationship between the sexes. That will turn out well /s.

Archive -- https://archive.is/uHWRg

[–]mwobuddy 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Its true and hilarious. People think that if you stay silent in government or voting, you're consenting to whatever happens. But if its two people sexing each other up, silence is non-consent.

[–]puppehplicity 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

It's true, anyway. I find it utterly exhausting and humiliating.

I understand the importance of explicit (and preferably verbal) consent for sexual activity. That makes sense, and it is not at all difficult to ask a partner if they would like [example] and act accordingly.

I can't begin to understand the "silence is consent" narrative when it comes to politics. Silence may just be a product of a person genuinely not knowing what happened, or deciding that they do not have enough factual information to have an opinion. It may be that a person is not silent, but they have no practical way of making their opinions known or doing anything about it.

Take the ongoing matter of immigrant families being split up at the US' southwestern border. I have been told that my silence is my consent, and that I am cruel for this. As it happens I don't support the practice, but as a civilian who lives thousands of miles away and only just heard about the issue earlier this week, there really isn't very much I can do. That doesn't make me cruel, it makes me unable to act, and the difference is substantial.

edit: This is not about immigration specifically, not in the least. I will provide another example to illustrate.

Some years ago I was participating in an online group of queer men around the world, but mostly Americans.

There were a few people who had gained some sway in the community (or at least, in the queer men community in their own cities) and were employed as speakers, writers, et cetera. A handful of these men were very widely alleged to have raped their partners.

And suddenly, if you were a queer man online, you had to know about it. Either you explicitly denounced the alleged rapists, or you were with them. If you said nothing, you were either defending them or you were ignorant and they were able to rape people because they relied on that ignorance. The guy that most comes to my mind lived in Arizona and was somewhat involved in the scenes in major Arizonan cities. I, being from Michigan, had never heard of him in my life. But because I did not condemn him and everyone who had ever associated with him, because I did not have all of the information and act on it immediately, I was somehow complicit in all queer men being rapists and supporting rapists.

It was, obviously, fucked up. I left. I still am a queer man... I can't change that any more than I can change how tall I am or the color of my eyes... but I stopped associating myself with people for whom that was a major definition of their lives. Lots of awesome people, but just a few people can create catastrophic damage with that kind of atmosphere.

[–]mwobuddy 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

. Silence may just be a product of a person genuinely not knowing what happened, or deciding that they do not have enough factual information to have an opinion.

As with Nietzsche, after a certain age a person finds that they can never be informed enough, never correct enough. We're all moving our pieces on the board hoping that we're making the right decisions, but we're just human, and human in an exponentially ever complexifying landscape thanks to knowledge and moral movements.

That's why old people find things were better when things were worse (e.g. simpler and kinda sucky, in the past, compared to now).

Its like this: The more choices of tomato sauce you have on a shelf, the less likely you are to make a decision. The more choices you have, the less happy you are with the decision you make afterward because you could've made so many other choices which might've been better, but you have no idea.

Now extrapolate that into politics, moral choices, career choices, and so on. Our happiness with our choices rests on the randomness of success (drunk drivers habitually do their thing, and there is a random element to so many of them 'succeeding' vs failure, why is it any different for careers?), our lack of foresight or hindsight with regards to alternatives, and our naivety in ignoring the limitless potential sidetracks we could've gone down.

Anyway, it really WAS nietsche who said "whoever thinks deeply realizes he is in the wrong, no matter what he does".

Life is a series of perpetual trade-off games.

And suddenly, if you were a queer man online, you had to know about it. Either you explicitly denounced the alleged rapists, or you were with them. If you said nothing, you were either defending them or you were ignorant and they were able to rape people because they relied on that ignorance. The guy that most comes to my mind lived in Arizona and was somewhat involved in the scenes in major Arizonan cities. I, being from Michigan, had never heard of him in my life. But because I did not condemn him and everyone who had ever associated with him, because I did not have all of the information and act on it immediately, I was somehow complicit in all queer men being rapists and supporting rapists.

Exactly. We play a social game where consent or support is implied by silence all the time, yet we've built a social structure on feminist ideology spanning 2 centuries which says "in this area only, women and only women should have given you explicit consent to say/do something or you're a sexual harasser or rapist".

[–]Daddie03 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

"On the contrary, some supposedly progressive claims about consent gave rise to confusion about the general sense of ‘intention’ and about the limits culpability. If ‘A slurred Yeesh doesn’t mean Yes’ then perhaps my drunk-driving does not mean I am really driving… Another way, if a drunk woman is not responsible for her actions then a drunk man is also not responsible for his actions, assuming gender equality. "

And just last month there was an article of a girl accused of sexual assault:

"*Roe also contends that it was ridiculous to find her guilty of nonconsensual sex because of Doe's drunkenness, but not find Doe guilty too: Roe was also drunk at the time, so under the rules she was just as unable to consent to sex as he was. While this might seem like a paradox—how can two young people rape each other?—it would actually be a straightforward application of affirmative consent, which requires all participants in a sexual encounter to proactively obtain freely given** and unambiguous consent before proceeding.*** "

And going further back to the Bachelor in Paradise incident where the young woman bent over and shoved her genitals into the young mans face, and it was deemed she may have been too intoxicated to consent, even though he was also intoxicated. But right away everyone was quick to say it was sexual assult against her, even though "she blames producers for not pulling the plug and protecting her, although our sources say people who have seen the tape claim she was lucid and fully engaged."

Long story short, feminist want all the responsibility on men, while they have none, this is not gender equality.

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