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Irishman who spent 17 YEARS in British prison based on wrongful rape conviction loses his battle for compensation

lostapwbm

January 30, 2019
76 upvotes
/r/MensRights
https://www.irishpost.com/news/irishman-spent-17-years-uk-prison-based-wrongful-rape-conviction-loses-compensation-battle-163983
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Title Irishman who spent 17 YEARS in British prison based on wrongful rape conviction loses his battle for compensation
Author

lostapwbm

Upvotes 76
Comments 17
Date January 30, 2019 2:12 PM UTC
(7 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/ald1lr/irishman_who_spent_17_years_in_british_prison/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/irishman-who-spent-17-years-in-british-prison.1182027
https://theredarchive.com/post/1182027
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Comments

[–]tenchineuro 26 points27 points28 points 7 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

Victor Nealon, 57, was found guilty of attempted rape at Hereford Crown Court in 1997 over an attack outside a nightclub in Redditch, Worcestershire the previous year.

The Dublin-born postman served 17 years of a life sentence before he lodged a successful appeal to have his conviction quashed in 2013.

Wait, life in prison for attempted rape?

He was finally freed from prison in December that year after an appeal court ruled that new DNA evidence uncovered from his alleged victim's clothing in 2009 made his conviction unsafe.

Mr Nealon could have been released a decade previously, but was not granted parole on the grounds that he refused to admit his guilt.

Yeah, you can't release someone if they claim to be innocent. WTF?

A 2014 amendment to the 1988 Criminal Justice Act means than anyone wishing to apply for compensation has to prove they are innocent "beyond a reasonable doubt".

And apparently DNA evidence does not raise to that level of proof, somehow. And yet it was enough to get him out of prison.

[–]martin59825 11 points12 points13 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I did 3 years and seen shit like this every day. The parole board are the biggest cunts you can possibly imagine

[–]geniice 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

Wait, life in prison for attempted rape?

A life sentence doesn't normally mean life in prison.

Yeah, you can't release someone if they claim to be innocent. WTF?

Makes rehabilitation tricky.

And apparently DNA evidence does not raise to that level of proof, somehow.

Because while it strongly suggests someone else was involved it doesn't prove beyond reasonable doubt that he wasn't

[–]tenchineuro 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Wait, life in prison for attempted rape?

A life sentence doesn't normally mean life in prison.

So the idea of an excessive sentence never crossed your mind? So I imagine that if you get life for attempted rape, then you'd get death for a completed rape, right?

Yeah, you can't release someone if they claim to be innocent. WTF?

Makes rehabilitation tricky.

What rehabilitation?

And apparently DNA evidence does not raise to that level of proof, somehow.

Because while it strongly suggests someone else was involved it doesn't prove beyond reasonable doubt that he wasn't

You know, they've come up with a perfect way to deny compensation, basically you need to find whomever did the deed as very little else would provide the level of proof needed. And if the woman made a false rape accusation, that make's it impossible.

[–]geniice 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

So I imagine that if you get life for attempted rape, then you'd get death for a completed rape, right?

Its hardly arson in a royal dockyard. In reality english law treats "attempted X" in much the same way as "X" and at the time of the case only had the death penalty for treason and piracy with violence (these have since been abolished).

What rehabilitation?

There is a general attempt to include a process that reduces the chance of people convicted of crimes from doing it again.

You know, they've come up with a perfect way to deny compensation, basically you need to find whomever did the deed as very little else would provide the level of proof needed.

The conservative lead goverment at the time wanted to look tough on crime while cutting police spending.

[–]tenchineuro 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

So I imagine that if you get life for attempted rape, then you'd get death for a completed rape, right?

Its hardly arson in a royal dockyard. In reality english law treats "attempted X" in much the same way as "X" and at the time of the case only had the death penalty for treason and piracy with violence (these have since been abolished)

So you are saying that, legally, in the UK, there's no difference between rape and attempted rape? Is this a mens rea crime or strict liability?

What rehabilitation?

There is a general attempt to include a process that reduces the chance of people convicted of crimes from doing it again.

I'm not asking what the word means, what specific attempts at rehabilitation would be thwarted by not admitting guilt? Ha, you don't get to use the word 'thwarted' that often IRL, and curse you Perry the platypus!

The conservative lead goverment at the time wanted to look tough on crime while cutting police spending.

From what I can see, both the US and UK treat the wrongly convicted worse than actual criminals.

[–]geniice 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

So you are saying that, legally, in the UK, there's no difference between rape and attempted rape? Is this a mens rea crime or strict liability?

The standard is "A does not reasonably believe that B consents".

I'm not asking what the word means, what specific attempts at rehabilitation would be thwarted by not admitting guilt?

Attempts that involve working out why the person behaved as they did and how to avoid such behavior patturns in future.

From what I can see, both the US and UK treat the wrongly convicted worse than actual criminals.

Well actual criminals do have the advantage that they have a reasonable chance of not being caught for any given offence.

[–]tenchineuro 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

So you are saying that, legally, in the UK, there's no difference between rape and attempted rape? Is this a mens rea crime or strict liability?

The standard is "A does not reasonably believe that B consents".

Is this a mens rea crime or strict liability?

And they added the phrase "knows, or should have known" when they updated the sexual assault laws years ago.

Now there's no question what rape is, it's something only a man can do, but what constitutes 'attempted rape'? How does one ascertain that rape was attempted?

I'm not asking what the word means, what specific attempts at rehabilitation would be thwarted by not admitting guilt?

Attempts that involve working out why the person behaved as they did and how to avoid such behavior patturns in future.

So you appear to have no knowledge (of pretty much anything) and you just endlessly generalize. is that it?

Give me the name of this rehabilitation program and I can try and look it up. But if you don't have a clue, then say you don't know.

[–]geniice 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Is this a mens rea crime or strict liability?

And again the standard is "A does not reasonably believe that B consents". Its not strict liability because its a defence that A reasonably belives that B consents but its not mens rea

Is there some part of this that isn't obvious to you?

it's something only a man can do,

Look if you are going to start getting technical you should probably remember the 2001 Claire Marsh case.

but what constitutes 'attempted rape'?

Currently an attempt to commit the offence of rape as defined by the 2003 act.

How does one ascertain that rape was attempted?

The same way you would make any other case in court. Given that in this case DNA of an unknown male was found on the victim's underwear you can see why it might have been felt that attempted rape was a reasonable charge to pursue.

So you appear to have no knowledge (of pretty much anything) and you just endlessly generalize. is that it?

Give me the name of this rehabilitation program and I can try and look it up. But if you don't have a clue, then say you don't know.

What is it with you and the fallacy of the excluded middle? I can know enough to know the catch the rehabilitation system throws up without knowing the names of the programs involved (given how long it has been an issue I assume more than one program name has been used).

[–]tenchineuro 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

it's something only a man can do,

Look if you are going to start getting technical you should probably remember the 2001 Claire Marsh case.

Actually, that may have been the reason or one of the reasons for the Sexual Offences Act 2003, under which Claire could at best be charged as an accessory.

  • https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/42/contents

  • https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_Offences_Act_2003

Wikipedia sums it up nicely.

  • Rape

  • Rape has been redefined from the Sexual Offences Act 1956 (amended in 1976 and 1994) to read:

  • A person (A) commits an offence if—

  • (a) he intentionally penetrates the vagina, anus or mouth of another person (B) with his penis,

  • (b) B does not consent to the penetration, and

  • (c) A does not reasonably believe that B consents.[4]

  • Rape previously did not include penetration of the mouth. The Act also changes the way in which lack of consent may be proved, and section 75 and 76 of the Act list circumstances in which lack of consent may be presumed.

I would like to draw attention to the part which says "with his penis", ergo, no woman can commit rape under English law since the act of 2003 came into effect in 2004. Now there was some manner of adjustment made after this to deal with trans-offenders and it's been long enough that I don't recall how it went.

Regarding Claire...

  • Capacity

  • A man or woman assisting another man to commit a rape can be prosecuted for the crime as an accessory.[8]

Again, only a man can commit rape in the UK today.

How does one ascertain that rape was attempted?

The same way you would make any other case in court.

Rape is not treated like any other case in court, there are no murder shield laws and laws that make murder accusers identity anonymous for life. There are no laws limiting the defense or those accused or murder. So this is patently false. In no other court case is the unsupported word of the accuser sufficient evidence for life in prison.

Given that in this case DNA of an unknown male was found on the victim's underwear you can see why it might have been felt that attempted rape was a reasonable charge to pursue.

Given that the presence of DNA does not prove rape, I'm not sure where we are going here, but I would suspect that in an attempted rape, there would be a much greater chance of a total lack of DNA.

[–]WikiTextBot 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Sexual Offences Act 2003

The Sexual Offences Act 2003 (c 42) is an Act of the Parliament of the United Kingdom.

It replaced older sexual offences laws with more specific and explicit wording. It also created several new offences such as non-consensual voyeurism, assault by penetration, causing a child to watch a sexual act, and penetration of any part of a corpse. It defines and sets legal guidelines for rape in English law.


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[–]Wisemanner 10 points11 points12 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

They will hand out massive amounts to women who claim they were discriminated against.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points12 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

What an absolute load of bullshit. I’d go whack the bitch and say I’ve already served the time.

[–]Pushandshovethetaco 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Gotta get that compensation for what happened one way or the other. I’d say he’d be vindicated doing so

[–]MormonSexEnhancement 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

the UK is lost

[–]theanchorman05 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That is a understatement

[–]DubsPackage 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Bints get money just for breathing.

This guy can't get money for being wrongly imprisoned 17 years.

lol

I'm laughing but it's not funny

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