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"The Effect of Fatherlessness on Children" (2018). Detailed, well-researched and well-argued blog post by William Collins where he collates lots of published data on the topic. A great resource for anyone interested in the topic.

wntk

April 10, 2021
51 upvotes
/r/MensRights
http://empathygap.uk/?p=2594
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Title "The Effect of Fatherlessness on Children" (2018). Detailed, well-researched and well-argued blog post by William Collins where he collates lots of published data on the topic. A great resource for anyone interested in the topic.
Author

wntk

Upvotes 51
Comments 20
Date April 10, 2021 1:22 AM UTC
(5 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/mnv6fg/the_effect_of_fatherlessness_on_children_2018/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/the-effect-of-fatherlessness-on-children-2018.1187174
https://theredarchive.com/post/1187174
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Following a petition, Winchester University cancelled a talk with two men's rights activists in 2019. Here is the text of one of the talks (by William Collins) that were planned. It covers education, suffrage and coverture. It's disappointing that such views can't be expressed in such a forum.

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(UK) "Sex Bias in Criminal Justice" (2018). Thorough blog where he goes through the data on gender differences in different categories e.g. arrests v prosecutions; disparities regarding: imprisonment; sentences; cautions; convictions; convictions; discharges; community sentences; suspended sentences

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95% of strip searches of children reported in England & Wales are of boys. This may or may not be an issue but I found it interesting that it was considered unfair that black children were more likely to be strip-searched but this huge gender disparity was barely mentioned in lots of media coverage.

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Comments

[–]wntk[S] 9 points10 points11 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"Conclusion

There is a huge prevalence of fatherlessness which our society regards with equanimity, and in some cases promotes.

Fatherlessness is causally related to a range of adverse outcomes for children, many of which persist into adulthood.

Consequently, our society is complicit in widespread disadvantaging of children."

[–][deleted] 5 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]-Soggy-Potato- 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

That’s sounds like it disadvantages kids even more though?

Now they grow up supposedly without a consistent male role model as well as having financial issues

Single parent households are 50% more likely to live in poverty as is even with child support, how would disadvantaging kids even more be wholly justifiable in this type of situation?

[–]TAPriceCTR 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

Paternal abortions don't disadvantage kids as much as maternal abortions do.

[–]OtherwiseTomato68632 points 5 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

Which is why I'm against both

[–]TAPriceCTR 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Ok. I don't try persuading anyone to my side, I just try to persuade them to be internally consistent.

[–]-Soggy-Potato- 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

For one you get no life to begin with

For the other you get an entire life which is very likely to be faced with poverty and all the numerous complications which come with that

Comparing them isn’t very productive, especially since banning abortion causes more problems than it supposedly fixes

[–]TAPriceCTR 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

I was born of an unwed 16 year old... I'm glad she didn't kill me. And while I spent a year of my adult life homeless, facing poverty was NOT my "entire life".

[–]-Soggy-Potato- -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

That really doesn’t change anything

Abortions are normalised and many would say the benefits outweigh the negatives, something that’s also legally backed in most western countries and pretty strongly backed if you look at general trauma and immoral and harsh alternatives / implications

The negatives aren’t long lasting, you don’t disadvantage a child by aborting, there’s no individual future to disadvantage, the life simply ends

For paper abortions that child will still likely be faced with poverty purely statistically speaking, the negatives of which I’d argue outweigh any arguments surrounding nuanced ideas of male bodily autonomy ect

There’s also a point to make regarding individual responsibility and how fair it is on the child due to the purely legal nature of paper abortions

There just isn’t an entirely justifiable alternative when you look into it

[–]TAPriceCTR 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link

Yes... "disadvantage"ing someone is sooo much worse than killing them. That's why when I hire workers I'm not going to pay them minimum wage... I'll just kill them before their first paycheck. Sooo much better than disadvantaging them with shitty wages.

If you want to hold men responsible to provide for the children produced by their choice to have sex, I can agree... and hold women responsible to provide for the children produced by their choice to have sex.

[–]-Soggy-Potato- -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

One doesn’t live with the consequences, that’s what I’m getting at

Your abortion x murder View isn’t universal, in many places not being legally recognised as such, hence why it also isn’t super relevant to what I’m saying

Paper abortion is worse than child support, the child is harmed for the mistakes of their parents. Comparing biological abortion to that doesn’t change anything about that point in particular

True identical responsibility Isn’t reasonable when the two situations widely contrast based on biological differences

It’s the best of a negative situation

[–]TAPriceCTR -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I never said abortion × murder. Nice strawman.

Wealth extraction is better for the child and woman, whose for the man who has to pay for it. Adoption is better for the man, child, and adopting couple, whose for the woman... so if you're gonna dictate "for the greater good" guess you're gonna have to dictate adoption instead of child support.

[–]-Soggy-Potato- -2 points-1 points0 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

You’re argument is the same though so it really doesn’t change anything

What I’m saying with paper abortions is they aren’t realistic. They punish the child for the mistakes of the parents, again there’s an element of responsibility

Women can legally remove that responsibility due to biological differences

Men cannot

That’s the difference

Sure, ideally women can go through a full term unwanted pregnancy and put their child up for adoption, but ultimately that’s the woman’s decision, because she is the one who carries the life and the one who gives birth

There’s inherent biological differences that i guess come across as sexist

It’s not reasonable or realistic to push the stance that men should have a say in a woman’s pregnancy, because he doesn’t deal with the physical process of birth. It’s widely considered immoral in the West to force a pregnancy or force an abortion

And Adoption still requires the commitment of the mother to go through a full term pregnancy, and that again runs into similar issues with paper abortions in the short term

And that’s still overlooking the underfunded, expensive and rickety process of adoption, sure it’s a good option but it’s still taking choice away from the person actually giving birth

[–]Maldevinine -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

While yes it's going to disadvantage some children, it's real power is as part of the pre-child negotiations. If the man does have power over the financial situation, they can hope to have some influence over what is one of the most important decisions that a couple will ever make.

[–]-Soggy-Potato- 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Giving people who don’t have abortions a right to decide over what their partner does with their body seems like a step in the wrong direction, they can have a stance or opinion but having it so one partner can / cannot have an abortion based on the wishes of the other partner sounds a little too old fashioned

And that’s still sort of blowing over the significant harm this will do to the paper aborted child

[–]Adventurous-Hair7302 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I would much rather my father paper abort me instead of up and leave at 9 years old

[–]Mariposa_Flor 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

We need less kids overall tbh

[–]__pulsar -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I don't know how I feel about that tbh. My first instinct is to disagree.

A better alternative is to require two party consent for an abortion to be allowed.

Personally, even if I wanted my partner to get an abortion but she didn't want to, I would still be heavily involved in raising the child. He/she didn't ask to be born. I made a decision that led to them being born, and I couldn't give them such a huge handicap in life by not acknowledging their existence. It just doesn't sit right with me.

[–]TAPriceCTR 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Fetucide doesn't "sit right" with me.

[–]Adventurous-Hair7302 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I can tell you the effect, looking in the mirror, seeing him in your reflection every day, every morning; realizing you share different looks, and actions with him. when i am upset, i breathe a certain way, the same way he does, it hurts me, because i know it hurts my mother, and that hurts me. I haven't learned things a 14 year old would the way most do. I learned how to work on a car by just doing it. No child should have to endure the absence of a parent.

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