You can change my view or add commentary if you'd like.

Life is unfair, this we know. Attraction is based on shallow measures and features. Evolution doesn't really care if some people don't end up in a relationship because we're wired to figure out what we should reproduce with.

Blah blah blah evolutionary psychology. But building a family and finding love in society is a lot different than just evolution. You can trust your inexplicable feelings to work for you in the wild as animals, but now we plan, build homes, want our partners to take care of us, and pick partners that have similar views on society so that you can teach that to your children.

Society and culture wants to maximize happiness and security for everyone. As animals there was a large amount of male ancestors of ours who didn't get to reproduce. Attraction is built in and already signals just about everything you need to know biologically. The discussion of rights is a large part of the conversation because it's the fairness that needs to balance out. We don't get caught up on what actually makes a good partner biologically because we already have base desires that function super well and that biological comparability is not actually universal entirely. The invention of marriage I see as a social construct to ensure the rights of the two partners by giving up a few freedoms. So long as the marriage is consensual, it seems like a smart decision for both parties especially when we've had a large history of working out the kinks and discussion across cultures of what works and what doesn't, even if sometimes it is different in different cultures.

The woman sacrifices an absolutely preferential mate. In return she gets a lot more focus and resources and her emotional needs met. The man sacrifices the freedom of having multiple partners and the freedom of low cost investments, in the marriage he has to invest care time and money in order to reproduce when it would be easy to ejaculate and evacuate so to speak. Because of this, a consensual healthy and loving functioning marriage seems like absolute goals.

As a man myself I can admit to certain biases. I feel resentful at times for what women do and say. If I were married, maybe I'd have a deep insecurity that I wasn't actually the ideal man and that it was well known to my partner, peers and society that I was of low value. However, I could imagine a woman being insecure in a relationship or resentful to men or society or reality that her partner's true nature is being attracted to or wanting to sleep with multiple partners.

In my last long term relationship not too long ago, I do recall feeling a little dissatisfied in this aspect. My needs were mostly met, I was in love, we had good sex. I was really optimistic about the future, but there was a secret hidden part of me that was wondering if this was it. I was young, had little dating experience, and in the relationship my value to other women was decreasing because of my comfort. I find all manner of women attractive, so what if I could never try it out? What physical traits do other women have that my partner didn't? What personality traits? There's always sacrifice in the potential for what is, so I didn't confront these and tried to push them away. My relationship was good and it was better than being alone. Eventually my partner felt that her needs weren't being met, left the relationship and emotionally cheated in the process. Perhaps this is why now I'm thinking about men in relationships being insecure in their value.

All that aside let's get to the title.

In my eyes, as I've said, there's a disconnect between wanting rights and equal ish outcomes and our human desires. Of course rights in the Purple Pill Debate is pretty much referring to feminism and anything that could be joined in that. As with any intention there are consequences that will be faced. If the invention is good, then it's a just and fair sacrifice. In the context of the Purple Pill Debate I'd say some of the relevant inventions in the past present and future can be: religion, culture, marriage, sexual aids and sexual health discoveries, social media, and dramatic social change. The introduction of all of these unfortunately will have consequences, even if the change is for the better.

I mention my identity and possible biases because I want to talk about men's rights for now and the future. Of course the men's right movement isn't non-existent, there are some big names and lots of discourse. What I find is different in the men's rights movement is a lack of specific problems that want to be addressed, very few common grievances and almost no solutions. As a man I obviously want to be treated fairly and well and I relate to the struggle of other men especially. I don't want to make any assertions of specific change and demands because I fear the possible biases. I went to this subreddit because I wanted it to be a discourse, especially involving women. If I was given ultimate power, I can't say either way if I would make things fair or just better for myself.

I do think I can say pretty objectively that men aren't doing so great in the rights department these days. At least the outcomes aren't looking too great. I wanted to address my biases not to discredit myself, but because I know I don't have a fair take really. The feminist movement has and still is absolutely bringing new consequences to women. In my position I find it hard to be compassionate to these new issues. After being called toxic and whatever else, lots of perceived slights to myself and men in general, I find it exhausting to listen to the complaints of women about the state of the world today because of the movement. Even if a specific woman never asked for it, to someone in my position it's seen as almost deserving. There's a bit of a meme these days about women avoiding responsibility.

I'm already throwing out lots of word salad here so I'll have to stay on topic. There's loads of parallels and all in all the Purple Pill Debate is a highly complex and important issue. If men or women are doing bad, everyone does bad. So I want to help in any way I can to improve my situation and others. Most brushes with men's rights movements have been somewhat frustrating, so a good channeled goal would be great for us to unite. If we have united demands then women will be more willing to listen and discuss or comply.

I can't imagine having a feminist movement for men. It doesn't seem in our nature. I brought up evolutionary psychology because I wanted to talk about men being sexually competitive. I think for centuries women have benefited from banding together, but us men fight each other and steal and cheat to raise our status. It's almost as if the dating pool was extremely finite. I recall boys in school or friend groups who were absolute snakes. Behind every guy's back they would talk bad about them, always on about feminism and toxic masculinity. One guy in particular I have anecdotal proof that the reality was he would bone any chick in our group. By today he has had two separate rape allegations investigated. As a man it's hard to view feminism positively when the men who seem to agree with it and push it all seem to be like this.

Behaving as a woman does won't get you what you want in the dating pool. Sorry incels I'm not breaking any ground here or dispensing some new wisdom. But I think seeing what works for women in the feminist movement will help men as a whole push to more rights and fairness. Even some of the ridiculous things in feminism that get laughed at. Believing in men, cracking down on sexual assault, no tolerance for body shaming and a protection of your male friends from women is what I would suggest.

With or without us, society pushes forward. Incredible competitiveness to me seems outdated and incompatible with how the relations between the sexes works today. If everyone wants to be married to reproduce then I have a hard time seeing how making it harder for other men helps you long term. Any men's rights take online gets some guy in the comments talking about how stupid it is, like body shaming is just the cries of a low value man, that crying about women wanting money is just because you're broke. It's almost like a signal that says "Hey, this guy is insecure not because of real world issues, but just because he's insecure." Men are even willing to donate insane amounts of money to women online simply for even existing. What women would say no to that?

Change is happening, that's obvious. Do we want to do better for men? If you want to challenge these ideas, you're challenging our current ideas of marriage and individual rights. I'm willing to discuss all of those crazy changes, but I won't address it here. Assuming we want marriage, equal rights and etc this is what seems obvious to me that we should do.

So guys, stop bitching about feminism please. There are loads of valid criticisms as with any movement, but we get it. Unfortunately we won't be going back in time to whatever period you believe men had it better. This is happening. I don't want men to get left behind. The reasons you're complaining is because feminism is working. If it was an absolutely horrible idea through and through for everybody involved it wouldn't be so popular. So maybe the change that needs to happen is you.

Telling women what to do would be tacky and inviting ad hominem arguments. But if you're a woman who's here and if any of you got this far reading thank you very much. To women I hope I won't be stepping out of line, but this is what I'd like to say. I think an equal rights movement wouldn't focus on or be named after only half of the population. If men are angry, if men are broke, if men are opting out of the dating pool, is that the outcome you want? I don't want to victim blame either, but for example the motivations of most men who are domestic abusers is insecurity, fear of infidelity, or anger. If even in the most outlandish hypothetical futures we end up subjugating men under women, does a man who's angry at the world sound appealing to you? Bad men are bad, but there's a certain amount of anger of real injustice, wouldn't you agree? Keeping men out of the conversation only let's them fester in the dark, and maybe when they do band together it'll be much more messy. What kind of man do you want to be with? What kind of man do you want your sons to be? What kind of man is attractive to you? What kind of man is good for society? If your answer to all of those is a man who let's women walk all over him, a man willing to give up his life status and money entirely for women, maybe you're right but I would suggest a reassessment of values. We all want love, we all want to live in a good world. It's all human rights here. I'm not trying to silence anyone when I say that perhaps you should listen to men. If it doesn't apply to you, that's great. Try to see if your motivations are truly altruistic, or perhaps even slightly selfish. I put myself out there by addressing my possible issues. Given the chance I might be motivated to procreate with many women and invest as little as possible. If there's an option for any human to do something like that, there's a temptation. When I've been straightforward in my shortcomings, women in the past have jumped on it as an attack and pretended like they were so much better than me. I still have faith that women don't do this, I love women. They're so compassionate and understanding and have very interesting points of view. It's not bad to change your mind, it's not even bad to listen entirely with good intentions and keep the same opinions on certain issues. You're welcome here and you're welcome in men's rights, political discourse and the dating pool.

Thank you all for your time, let me know what you think.