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[–]ThePUA_Baddie 15 points16 points17 points 9 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
don't rely on online, do cold approach. online should not be your main source of pussy, exactly for the reasons that you have just described. average looking to hot girls on there are bombarded by messages, you won't stand out unless you're hot. cold approaching women during the day eliminates about 99% of the competition, because most guys don't have the balls to do it. if you must do online you should start lowering your standards, message girls that aren't getting as much attention and try to close those ones. you can't expect to bag a hottie from online unless you are equally as hot as her. even with cold approach it's difficult to bang hotties, but i'm willing to argue that you have more of a chance with the hotties doing cold approach vs online, simply because you are able to convey more with an opener compared to a message
[–]DirtyProjector 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
But here's what I don't understand. Your assumption is I am not attractive enough for these women without knowing what I look like. On all apps today except Match and OKCupid, a girl has to swipe on you before you can write her. That means they have to say "I like this dude, I think he's attractive" before you can message them. I use Hinge as one app, and it indicates which section of your profile the girl "liked" and almost every time it's not my first photo. This means they're not just looking at my top photo and liking it and not really looking st my profile. So if this is the case, my assumption is they find me attractive, and your argument doesn't really hold up. Maybe they're getting inundated and can't manage all their messages, I agree with that. But the other part? I don't know if I agree.
[–]Ragondux 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
On all apps today except Match and OKCupid, a girl has to swipe on you before you can write her.
And for some reason I'm having more success on OkCupid. I think the swiping is making women a lot more picky than when you can message them first.
[–]DirtyProjector 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
What are you writing women?
[–]Ragondux 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It depends on the woman, the generic approaches don't really work. I've had good answers when I started with a bad joke, but they didn't lead to actual dates.
The general idea is to use their profile as if you met them in the street and asked "what's your job" or "what are your hobbies". You build on their answers, find a commonality or some question to ask.
I'm not saying I'm very successful, but I've had a few dates on OkC, and only one on Tinder. Tinder has been a wasteland for me.
[–]ThePUA_Baddie 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Again, women are bombarded with messages and matches daily on these apps. Every swipe that she makes is a match, because almost every guy has already swiped to like her. I wouldn't get hung up over online dating. Fundamentally it plays towards the girl's favor. An attractive girl on tinder is showered with options, you just haven't seen this so you believe you are the only guy on her radar. You're not, there are several other guys just like you in her tinder, perhaps she isn't messaging you because she simply doesn't have time to write everyone. Whatever the case is I think you should do cold approach instead of online
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Can you give some examples of the conversations?
Maybe there's something that you aren't paying attention to.
[–]DirtyProjector 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link
That's my point - most of the time there is no conversation. On apps like Hinge, you can send an initial message and the girl has to accept the message which creates a connection. Most of the time I don't send a message because when I do, girls will accept my match/message but not say anything in response to it. So this girl wrote about her go to karaoke songs, saying she needs a male backup and I said I'd back her up if she backed me up on this other song. She accepted my message but didn't say anything in response, which is really awkward. What do I say at that point? This other girl liked me first, a photo of mine from Burning Man - so I asked her if she's been before or if she was planning to go in the future. No response. This other girl accepted my like of one of her profile sections which outlines a few items on her bucket list. I then sent her a message about the fact that one of the times on her bucket list was to be a model in a life drawing class, saying I saw an Airbnb experience in Barcelona where you could take a life drawing class and suggested maybe she could take that route and make a career out of it (was a bit more engaging/funny than that, that's just the gist)
I try to keep things on the shorter side initially, try to incorporate some kind of humor or something from their profile, and make it either a direct question or something someone can respond to in a flirty way that can keep the conversation going.
As a counter example, I wrote a girl an initial message and asked her something recently that took her out of her comfort zone, and she responded "finally someone who writes an engaging message!" And another girl I just asked "are you in the states right now?" And both lead to engaging conversations and date outcomes. Both of these seem like they could potentially turn someone off or be seen as boring.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
thanks for the examples. I think some messages stopped b/c you allowed yourself to be dragged in boring conversation. Maybe Karaoke is fun for others but you need more rapport with someone to make it a fun conversation. Most of the time, the women are going to get into boring conversations and you will be held responsible for it being boring. So you have to push the interaction 99% of the time. For the burning man, I do not see the question to be a bad move if it was in a real life situation. But when she gets bombarded by 25+ messages per day, the last thing someone wants to do is answering questions or going into serious conversations like going to barcelona to achieve a dream or giving career advices. You were not advertising yourself or your personality in any of the examples you gave which flaked. But for the ones that worked, you did exactly that. Taking someone out of the comfort zone shows you are confident and asking whether someone is in the states right now shows you are looking forward to meeting them and not just spend the next two weeks exchanging messages.
For the burning man example, you could have talked about something specific that happened there or told a story behind the picture that she liked. The first interactions are always very important in online messages b/c you have to stand out. If you were bombarded by 25+ messages every day, you too will be picky.
You also pointed out that you looked for flirty responses when messaging. That's seduction and it always comes last. You have to look at your sequencing. You want to attract, then build comfort and finally seduce. Building comfort is the most important part b/c that's where she is investing the most. People cling to the things they invest the most in. But you should avoid that mistake. Be involved but detached. i.e you want to invest the time and the work but not cling when you are not getting what you want. Even if you are having this amazing conversations with a woman, be prepared to move on if it just stops without warning.
You are having troubles with the attraction phase imo. It seems like you are going straight for comfort building.
There are some examples of text messages you could send.I find the next two youtube links to be useful. They are mostly for tinder but I think you can use the general idea. You should try out tinder again and try the lines.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mn12BwENsKI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3SrFAeBEjs
I really liked the 3 questions game from the second link as they are engaging and you can get a phone number in a short time. But a fine balance should be held between getting out of one's comfort zone and not going too personal or too sexual. It also gives you the chance to find commonality and for the woman to find out the most important things she wants to know about you.
you have to evaluate your profile pictures. Given that all these online dating is just visuals, you should look for tips to improve your profile pictures. I do not know how it is. It could be well done. But even great things can always go with some improvement.
Finally, always stay positive and take it as a game. Laugh off your failures or even better, use them in future conversations. If you feel one woman has flaked on you and you can still message her, ask her why she did b/c you want to get better at this. If it's already a lose end, at least get some feedback. A master has failed more times than others have tried. You just need to make sure you get feedback. Those will be more useful than anyone here could provide.
[–]DirtyProjector 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I appreciate your thoughtful response, and I think I agree - having trouble with the attraction phase. I guess from your post, I don't really know what is involved there. Like in regards to the Burning Man photo - what could I have really said, and what's wrong with the message I sent? If she says "I have been, it was awesome!" I could at least go from there with more questions. It seems odd to me to just tell a story... like "Hey, the Light Houses in this pic were amazing. You got this 360 degree view of the desert, and while I was there, this crazy sand storm hit and I was trapped on this swinging draw bridge until it passed". What is she supposed to say to that? It seems close ended and unengaging. Does that make sense? Like here's an example interaction below with this really cute girl:
Me: Hi lady. Are you in the lovely state of California right now? I'm creeping on your instagram
Her: Ah yes sometimes I forget I've connected that :)
Me: I mean can you really get to know someone if you dont' have access to their social media?
Her: In Santa Barbara but off to LA today. Ha yes, tells (most) of your secrets. LA is the last stop before I return to the UK
It evolves from there, and we had a few more messages before agreeing to meet up when she returns.
But for another girl, she talks about how she wants to travel in SE asia - so I said South East asia is my next stop as well. Really want to visit Thailand and Vietnam and Laos. What's your travel style like?
Is that inappropriate? It seems like an engaging way to get a conversation started around something she's interested in. It's better than "Hi, you like to travel huh?".
I dunno, I don't get it.
[–]_youtubot_ 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
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[–]DarkForestMusic 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
yea it wouldn't hurt OP, I mean we're all here to get better right?
[–]MinnesotaMan2 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yeah. unless you want to invest the time and effort to bang a 6/10 every blue moon. I use tinder to test out openers and just to mess around on.
[–]johnthesmith626 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I agree with this, online dating is not a reliable method for everything that was said. I have tried every dating app out there pretty much and have similar results. There is simply not enough girls to go around and many of them are just on for attention
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[–]ThePUA_Baddie 15 points16 points17 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]DirtyProjector 1 point2 points3 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]Ragondux 1 point2 points3 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]DirtyProjector 1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Ragondux 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]ThePUA_Baddie 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]DirtyProjector 1 point2 points3 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]DirtyProjector 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]_youtubot_ 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]DarkForestMusic 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]MinnesotaMan2 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]johnthesmith626 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link