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Man Reads "Men Who Hate Women" by Laura Bates

michaelchief · 2024-04-16T13:26:45+00:00

Link to the article: https://medium.com/illumination/man-reads-men-who-hate-women-by-laura-bates-81473a9d62d8 Though this is not a new book, it's worth...

michaelchief

April 16, 2024

41 upvotes

/r/ExRedPill

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Title	Man Reads "Men Who Hate Women" by Laura Bates
Author	michaelchief
Upvotes	41
Comments	8
Date	April 16, 2024 1:26 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/ExRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/exredpill/comments/1c5g2sl/man_reads_men_who_hate_women_by_laura_bates/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/ExRedPill/man-reads-men-who-hate-women-by-laura-bates.1515307 https://theredarchive.com/post/1515307

Comments

[–]Maddzilla2793 5 points6 points7 points 2 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]michaelchief[S] 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Maddzilla2793 2 points3 points4 points 2 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

I clicked the friend's access for this article. It’s not bad, but it also claims dating is still gendered and plugs his books.

I do appreciate him sharing his critics and preparing men to expect to feel a bit of discomfort. He makes some good points, but at its core, I think it glazes over the most important part:

“It opened my eyes to where all the abuse was coming from, and how politically motivated actors used deceptive means to trick countless men into supporting purposefully inaccurate messages and ideologies”

I’d like to note this isn’t just political, it’s also corporate actors. A lot of this is public relations, marketing, and communication tactics that is employed in the spheres that influence our lives (social, political, economic).

I harp on this all the time on here. And I wish I was a better writer like these coaches, bloggers, and social media personalities, and being persuasive and their ability to story tell. (Which is funny, because I understand the mechanics, why they do it and so on.)

But, it’s the messaging, its knowing people make mental short cuts to make decisions (we call it heuristics) it’s the repeatedly being bombarded with the same message over and over again, it’s the cherry-picked statistics, it’s that we know people are now educated via entertainment, it’s giving people pre-written talking points that read as facts, it’s the people consider research is a YouTube, TikTok, or Instagram blogger, there is so much more that shapes this and it doesn’t have to do with gender at all (all genders are being pushed narratives, ideologies and so on).

I recommend all the time on here people dive into the studies of communications and the theories they go into (two-step theory, education entertainment theory, uses and gratifications, cultivation, just to name a few).

You can probably find Quizlet from comms 101 classes.

I used to study this field and work in it. I remember my first day learning how to tap into hope and fear. How to write a sentence to evoke emotion and how to use my words to influence large audiences. The idea is to disrupt your thinking and give you influence to think the way I want you to think. A great example of this is when Fire Fest disrupted the feed on social media.

For example, the author of this article is tapping into the fear that dating is still gendered and giving them hope by saying I can give you a better path to dating, that isn’t red-pilled, buy and subscribe.

If that’s too much, then just explore the topic on mass communications.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/mass-communication

If you are intrigued there are also fields of study specific to political communications.

Mass communication - process of sharing information with a large audience. Mass communication is accomplished via mass media—that is, technology capable of sending messages to great numbers of people, many of whom are unknown to the sender (e.g., television). The purposes of mass communication include entertainment, education, and political propaganda. Among the fields of endeavour that engage in mass communication are marketing, public relations, and journalism.”

two step flow model - …It stipulates that mass media content first reaches “opinion leaders,” people who are active media users and who collect, interpret, and diffuse the meaning of media messages to less-active media consumers. According to the authors, opinion leaders pick up information from the media, and this information then gets passed on to less-active members of the public. This implies that most people receive information from opinion leaders through interpersonal communication rather than directly from mass media.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/two-step-flow-model-of-communication

Uses and Gratifications theory -

Uses and Gratifications Theory is a popular approach to understanding mass communication. The theory places more focus on the consumer, or audience, instead of the actual message itself by asking “what people do with media” rather than “what media does to people” (Katz, 1959) . It assumes that members of the audience are not passive but take an active role in interpreting and integrating media into their own lives. The theory also holds that audiences are responsible for choosing media to meet their needs. The approach suggests that people use the media to fulfil specific gratifications. This theory would then imply that the media compete against other information sources for viewers' gratification. (Katz, E., Blumler, J. G., & Gurevitch, M. 1974

https://www.springwoodhighschool.co.uk/_site/data/files/users/2/6th%20form/2020%20summer%20tasks/y12/77ACE924FDE84DF2FA70BBD79C55BAC0.pdf

Educational entertainment theory - The term entertainment education (EE) refers to entertain- ment media that incorporate an educational message or information of value to the audience to increase audience members’ knowledge about an issue, create favorable attitudes, and change overt behavior (Singhal and Rogers 2002; Moyer-Gusé 2008).

^{^research} more into this and Sesame Street! And their advisor Prof. Gerald Lesser. I feel so weird saying it in writing but Sesame Street was an experimental venture on using TV as an educational tool, since it was enjoyable but also constructive.

https://www.worldbank.org/content/dam/Worldbank/Publications/WDR/WDR%202015/Spotlight-2.pdf

Cultivation Analysis - Cultivation analysis (or cultivation theory), an important theoretical perspective in communication, is based on the idea that the views and behaviours of those who spend more time with the media, particularly television, internalize and reflect what they have seen on television.

^{^research} more around prime time TV! It’s interesting to see how those shows re-enforce everyday ideas. Great examples of this are Law and Order or Chicago PD.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/cultivation-analysis

Heuristics - reduce the complexity of a decision, problem, or question by neglecting to take into account all relevant and available information. Often called “mental shortcuts” or “rules of thumb,” heuristics are catchall strategies used in a variety of scenarios. They are commonly contrasted with algorithms, which are comprehensive step-by-step processes that reliably end with a correct solution for specific situations. For example, when baking a pie, following a recipe exactly would be considered an algorithmic approach, whereas using trial and error to determine proper ingredients or baking time would involve the use of one or more heuristics.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/heuristic-reasoning

[–]michaelchief[S] 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Maddzilla2793 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

Apologies, if I am not clear I was not calling fear-mongering. But, when you use certain messaging it can tap into someone’s deep rooted fears and emotions.

Using the word “gendered” when talking about dating could tap into a them verse me mentality which is found in the manosphere. We know academically, tapping into emotions such as hopes and fears is a great way to enforce our messages into someone.

For example, when we write surveys we know the words that will not evoke emotion in someone.

E.i, Do you approve of the current President of the United States America?

We do not use the names as they will evoke an emotional response.

Another example but from a more marketing standpoint, I am selling men’s razors. I know if I make a kick ass commercial around how using this razor 🪒 will help young man become a man and attract ladies, a women comes in and rubs her women who just shaved face. Trina is because via the imagery and messaging I use, I am tapping into his hope to be a man. Words like power, boost performance, and bold; tap into a young man’s hope of who he should be as a man.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdD0WoiY428

Here is my last example, when I worked in lobbying and lowering drug prices. We would never refer to drug companies as drug companies, or pharmaceutical companies, or their name, we would just say Big Pharma… this word has meaning and that evokes feelings in someone and the fear some people have when they think of Big Pharma.

I by no means think this is fear mongering. But, I think the messaging and words used can trigger more than you realize within someone’s deep rooted hopes and fears, especially to the audience you are catering trying to engage. When I choose the words I use I know I am using them because it will evoke something in my audience.

Rather, in the academic word what we do it explain the limitations, you could do that by stating she is not expert in male focused dating, mental health or point out she is a writer/author (not an academic) and that limits makes what she is saying more an observation rather than fact.

A great book on messaging is by GOP strategist Frank Luntz, its call Words that Work. It’s more political focused but has great examples. He is the one who re-branded estate tax as death tax. Because, let’s be real, no one wants to “tax death”

https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/words-that-work-its-not-what-you-say-its-what-people-hear_frank-luntz/251558/

Another book I recommend is Brand Hacks its has little case studies about how brands tap into people’s emotions, such as hope and fear to get them to buy things. Some tap into creating experiences, creating FOMO, and so on.

https://www.amazon.com/Brand-Hacks-Fulfilling-Consumer-Meaning/dp/1576879828

[–]michaelchief[S] 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Using the word “gendered” when talking about dating could tap into a them verse me mentality.

I was never aware of this, so excuse me if I'm still a bit skeptical. I don't think I've heard anyone from the manosphere saying "dating is gendered" (they generally opt for very blatantly sexist language instead) and the first time I heard it was somewhere on reddit in what I believe was a predominantly left-leaning subreddit. I thought it was an apt summary to describe experiential differences in dating. To me, "she is not an expert in male-focused dating" sounds exactly like the same thing (except that it feels like we're blaming Bates a bit more in some way).

However, I certainly do not wish to make anyone think of dating in any adversarial manner, and will definitely consider using different expression as you've suggested.

I would appreciate if others could also weigh in on how they interpret the phrase "dating is gendered" so that I could get some more understanding.

[–]Maddzilla2793 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

It is interesting. Because, gendered is also viewed differently by different generations, especially in this day and age.

If you think it fits with your current audience. It may be fine.

But when I think of younger generations and their views on gender, it could be perceived in a much different way.

We also harp about writing to your target audience. So, if you are trying to speak to men 30-60 this may be OK. But could have a cause different reaction to men 18-30. I very much pay attention to the demographics and look at the current state of culture, the location, and so on when I write.

For example, if I wanted to talk about the modern state of dating for college students in a north eastern city like New York City, I would use words that would relate to those demographics, and that gender is viewed differently based on one’s culture, socio-economic background, and location. So, in New York City, I’d assume majority of college students are more into gender fluidity, based on the schools and the cultures there, be aware of the halve and halve not mentality of wealthy students who can afford schools there and the scholarship students who may need to work on top of attending school, and understand a comparison between the public and private school system. If I used the term “gendered” in an article geared towards an NYU student, I’d probably get a lecture about gender norms and fuck the patriarchy. But if, I was at a CUNY School such as hunter where it’s more working class people of color where gender roles are the norm, you could get the opposite reaction. End of the day, is know your audience, and be sure to be in-tune with them.

Your writing is for men who are obviously looking for dating advice. Many who are struggling and have a fear of being alone. Some, may have not been redpilled involved others may of been. And those words could evoked a different reaction to each of them.

Maybe the way I described her, is too off the cuff and not the best. I am not writing and proofreading, just a person in the internet, and I apologies for that.

But, I’d look into writing limitations in research papers and literature reviews. You do not have to state she isn’t an expert but instead you can add other sources and say this is what this book is missing for a more full perspective.

I am not trying to knock what you are doing at all. I truly commend you and think you are doing a great job. I think you have a really cool perspective and applaud you for trying to give more balanced dating advice.

I come from a different world than you, and personally would considering the audiences. And, how some of this language could dive someone back into the redpill, steer them a way from your writing or be used in manosphere spaces to reenforce their ideas.