Disagree with views here

512fm · 2020-09-03T16:33:27+00:00

One thing that has always interested me about Mgtow etc is if these men are really going their own way why are they so obsessed with hypergamy and female nature?

It’s also a bit concerning how in those groups any ideas even slightly different from their own are met with “lol just another blue pill simp”. I know because this is what happened to me when I even slightly challenged some ideas of mgtow and red pill.

cunningcaring · 2020-09-03T17:27:29+00:00

You are not allowed to question nor criticize TRP. It’s a cult.

Jamonde · 2020-09-03T16:38:32+00:00

Hello, seems like you’re ready to have a good discussion about this, so in no way is any of this meant to attack not belittle you, rather meant as observations based on my personal experiences and discussions I’ve had.

When people here compare MGTOW or TRP to a cult, we aren’t saying that there is a single ultimate leader, that there are reeducation camps, that your money is being drained (although I believe this may be the case for some RP users?), nor that you are being forcibly cut off. Rather, being so heavily invested in such groups and their philosophies often cuts people off by itself because of how awful the views are that these new converts share. I’ve seen at least a couple of posts (maybe here or on some other subreddits) from people who are acquaintances or friends/family members of people falling into either TRP or something adjacent and feeling completely cut off... because they are women, and the person falling into the ‘cult’ is so far gone and already espousing such hateful rhetoric that the person making the post already has the sense that there is nothing they can say or do to sway their former acquaintance. Sometimes they don’t feel like they can be around the convert at all. That is one aspect of how we have cult-like behavior, being lost to reason from an entire segment of the population based on their sex. But it need not be women who have this issue on their own, neither. How many guys want to be around another guy who is saying that women are subhumans who are incapable of making rational decisions?

As far as MGTOW, it would be fine if they were actually just about, well, men going their own way. I haven’t stopped by any of their subreddits or online forums recently, but most of their posts are about shitting on women or complaining about modern dating or complaining about their experiences with women. And like... that’s a pretty significant chunk of it. Not as cult-like as TRP or inceldom I’d argue, but there’s a reason why they’re considered adjacent to other manosphere groups: there’s a tendency to do little self-reflection within the group, and focus much of their energy and attention on trying to understand why others are responsible for their problems.

But mostly, that’s besides the point: the comparison to cults comes in in the fact that little to no self-reflection is allowed in any of these groups, at least not done in a public enough way that anyone associates self-reflection and critical thinking with any of them. Plus, like you have pointed out, they are overwhelmingly negative. TRP does have some stuff about like being confident and taking care of your body, but so does, like, almost any group. The trash comes in when women are treated as incapable of rational thought, and thinking that are society is somehow gynocentric based on the facts that child custody cases tend to favor women and circumcision still happens without the consent of the baby, etc. A lot of why we associate many of these groups so closely is that TRP more or less encourages PUA-type behavior because of how women are thought of. How many redpilled women do you know? Like, seriously? Of the women in your life IRL, how many do you think would agree with TRP ideas? What objections to the group and their ideas do you personally think they might have?

As far as being im TRP, what do you do if you continue to fail and/or view yourself as a perma-virgin? Join MGTOW or become an incel depending on how you want to spin it, no? There’s a very clear feedback loop within the manosphere, at least to me.

_Bayesian_ · 2020-09-03T20:08:38+00:00

Yes TRP and MTGOW absolutely are cults. I was blackpilled not too long ago. Being blackpilled is only a few dating stats away from being redpilled so I'm going to give my take.

When I was blackpilled there was NO room for disagreement. Based on what I've seen on TRP subreddit and RP individuals I have interacted with irl it is the exact same. Often times when I disagreed with certain tenants of the blackpill I would get responses like "You may be trained in statistics, but atleast I'm not a bluepilled cuck!" or something similar. That statement has an implicit meaning underneath it: Anything you say is wrong, and I am right due to my personal experiences. This in itself is a problem because it usually leads to a cyclic tautological mode of thought, at which point I can't argue against irrationality.

For example, blackpillers may say "I was rejected because I was ugly. But I know I'm ugly because I was rejected. But I was rejected because I'm ugly. But I know I'm ugly because I was rejected..." so on and so forth.

As for redpillers they may say "I am alpha because I'm confident. But im confident because im alpha. But im alpha because im confident..." so on and so forth.

It gets boring trying to debate RPers/blackpillers because its like trying to debate whether God exists or not. The premise for the god exists argument is "I think God is real, therefore he is real." Same cyclical mode of thought.

emzw · 2020-09-03T15:36:42+00:00

Look up The BITE-model by leading cult expert Steven Hassan. He used to be in a cult himself. All the manosphere subcultures are cults! Destructive cults to be exact. You are still in denial, so good luck to ya!

Carloverguy20 · 2020-09-04T06:37:45+00:00

My problem with MGTOW is that it has become an angry man circlejerk, full of bitter divorced men, angry incels, tflers, or people who are mad at a bad breakup, and now want to project their anger and frustration on the opposite gender. With MGTOW, you can go your own way, without having to bash women, saying "Feminism has ruined the modern woman".

Stargazer1919 · 2020-09-03T23:16:13+00:00

There's no leader and you aren't encouraged to give money to something or someone. But it has many of the other characteristics.

Swordfish1762 · 2020-09-04T17:09:10+00:00

So TRP's and MGTOW men should not be shamed...? Maybe if these shits stopped shaming every man who disagrees with them, they may be given the same curtosy. Until then they are just a bunch of two-bit shits that can't get dates for reasons that are of their own faults.

Title	Disagree with views here
Author	reaper555
Upvotes	4
Comments	20
Date	September 3, 2020 2:47 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/ExRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/exredpill/comments/ilus50/disagree_with_views_here/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/ExRedPill/disagree-with-views-here.203586 https://theredarchive.com/post/203586

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