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I've alienated my wife and killed our bedroom.

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June 3, 2017
This is my ride. You might want to buckle up.

My wife and I have been married for over 20 years. We've fucked maybe 2 dozen times. She was a virgin and has not been with anyone else as far as I know. We have 2 older teens.

I've failed miserably and all along was so clueless that I blamed her. I always felt that I had settled and I believe I took it out on her by avoiding any level of physical relationship. Somehow I decided that seeking validation as an orbiter to other women and fapping was more satisfying than nailing my wife. I only ever initiated a few times, and I turned her down on many occasions until finally she stopped trying. For years she wrote offers like "I hope we can try" in cards at our anniversary and Valentine's day but gave up on that a few years ago.

She has progressed into total bitch mode (to me) and avoids letting me get near her. It's been a year and a half since we had any sexual contact. We continue to share a bed but she avoids coming to bed until I'm asleep. Neither of us signed up for a lifelong platonic relationship and yet that's what we have. She has recently claimed that she feels like she settled, that I repulse her, and she regrets missing out on half a lifetime of sex. She has begun bringing up the topics of divorce or dating in her arguments.

One complicating factor is that she is a senior in her company and has her ass kissed all day long. Then she comes home and is just an involuntary celibate wife and mother who cooks and cleans. Also, I have not been a planner - I'd rather deal with things as they arise - and that forced her to assume that role for the household and the family.

I always knew that we were screwed up, but only recently did I realize that it's totally my fault and up to me to fix it. While doing some soul searching last summer I came across the Red Pill sites and at first wasn't impressed since it was obvious to me that my wife was the problem, not me. As I invested time and energy trying to understand, I had some major revelations about my beliefs, my actions, and the situation I created - The Nightmare.

I completed and digested the prerequisite readings and started through the 101 list. I continue to lift and run (been doing so for decades) and I have a job I love with great income. I'm socially aware and not afraid to banter with strangers or flirt with women. I think that I am 1 or 2 points higher SMV than her. I have taken a few responsibilities from her at home to practice and prove leadership.

I've started trying the Red Pill ideas - attempting to pass shit tests and comfort tests (which seem really rare), frame, fogging, and STFUing. She claims I've been a "jackass" lately, so I'm not sure I'm getting it right though. Maybe I'm missing and failing the comfort tests and adding too much Rambo.

It might be a long shot, it might be impossible, but oh well. Rewards require effort and risk. She has stayed this long, and I feel like I owe myself and her to do the things I should have been doing all along. Whether that results in us staying together or separating I don't know, but I am trying to be an attractive man. To be a leader. To be a husband. To become ... worthy.

So, enough puke and build up. I have a natural inclination to fix problems and rely only on myself, but this time I need some help. I've been lurking since last year and I've been combinations of sympathetic, offended, impressed, and sometimes floored at the advice dispensed. I'm now imposing on you all and asking for a turn. I know in general that the lack of a woman's sexual desire is caused by not being attractive. In this case, is it possible that it might be the reverse, that the lack of attraction is the result of my failure to initiate? How can I initiate when she actively avoids opportunities for me to even touch her? (Her go-to move is sitting or laying on the sofa watching TV and falling asleep early, and even when I can get close other times she tells me to stop or ignores me).

Is this even the right approach?

TL;DR: Didn't fuck wife. Blamed her. Realize it's my fault. How can I and should I start initiating?

Post Information
Title I've alienated my wife and killed our bedroom.
Author ILovesMeSomeJunk
Upvotes 10
Comments 37
Date 03 June 2017 05:22 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/206071
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/6ezkkn/ive_alienated_my_wife_and_killed_our_bedroom/
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Red Pill terms found in post:
leadershipnaturalframeorbitersexual market valueshit testcomfort testliftthe red pillclose

[–][deleted] 32 points33 points  (2 children) | Copy

Shit and comfort tests are rare because she's given up. She knows the kind of man you are.

20 years of marriage is a lot of history. You're going to need two years of stfu and improve yourself before she sees that you are a new man.

12 stages of dread. Problem is, she's probably beyond caring about anything you do.

So, get to it. Become a leader in your household. Take charge of where/when you eat. Start making decisions. Fucking initiate for fuck sake.

Don't tell her anything. Look mommy! I'm a big boy now!! is all she'll hear.

Don't get butthurt when you get shot down... and you will... many times. You are unattractive to the point of being invisible, even repulsive to her right now.

1000 foot rope concept. You are a boat captain. She's jumped ship because you're not much of a captain. She's on a raft, tied to you with this really long rope. You're not leading the relationship, you probably haven't even picked a direction to lead toward. You both are just floating in the water next to each other. When you realize that your job as a man is to improve yourself, and you actually start doing it, then you start off, slowly picking up speed. You can't tell her you're moving, because she cannot and will not believe you. Women talk, men do. So STFU. Anything you say will be seen as validation seeking. "look mommy!, I'm driving!!!" So you keep going, picking up speed. This takes months of work. Because the rope is long, she doesn't move. Nothing has changed from her perspective, except maybe you're starting to look a little further away and are facing away from her. She probably doesn't care. Eventually, the rope will start to tug. She'll either pick up speed and come along for the ride or decide to cut the rope and keep floating. By this point you're way ahead of her and continuing to pilot your ship. Hopefully by then you realize that what she does, she will do. Outcome independence - you're going to keep driving your yacht. You can take her on a fun ride, or not. But you need to allow her some slack. 1000 feet. Or you can cut the rope yourself at any time.

[–]maxofreddit9 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy

This is so fucking solid right here.

I'd also add that from the sounds, you've done such a shitty job, that you really can't, at any time, show anger towards her. Own your shit...seriously.

Be a leader, and be fun. Do the work, and let that speak for you.

[–]ILovesMeSomeJunk[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I have a lot of work on that 'fun' part to do. I do have some activities planned and she has been happy to join me. Baby steps, I suppose.

[–]ReddJiveRed Beret8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

You're asking if you should initiate?

Ahhhh fuck yes.

She's going to rebuff. Brush off the feelings and get back in.

Isolate. Escalate. You've not been sexual to her at all. Start.

Smacking ass is perfect here. She has to walk by you. And you her. Get a handful.

Yeah you're going to come as a asshole but fuck it. She already thinks you are. So be the asshole that wants to fuck her and let her know that.

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy

married for over 20 years. We've fucked maybe 2 dozen times.

Why wouldn't a woman be pissed at a man who was such a wimp he could only close the deal with his own wife once a year? Think about it from her perspective.

You are at Dread Level 1. Work on owning your shit, responding to shit tests (you probably won't be getting comfort tests for a while) and being a man that other women want to fuck.

should I start initiating

FUCK YES you should. The key is to not be butthurt when you are turned down. It really should be at the point where it doesn't matter. I mean how much more low risk can your initiating be? You only have sex once a year anyway. Initiate as much as you want. Then roll your eyes when she says "no" and go do something interesting. Put her on hold for a couple of days. Then start your seduction again. Initiate...rinse...repeat.

And don't get butthurt.

This is a thick block of ice that you CAN melt, but it is going to take time.

Also, she is angry and pissed because she is not getting fucked and because she thinks she married a man who is unworthy of being fucked by anybody. Show her the error of her waves slowly over the next 2 years and you have an 80% chance of fixing this.

How can I initiate when she actively avoids opportunities for me to even touch her?

Sit on the couch next to her and touch her. Start SLOWLY with just an arm on the shoulder for up to several WEEKS. Learn Kino and Escalation once you finally have her attention but start with LIGHT and nonsexual Kino. You have to train your wife to get used to being touched by you and lead her to a better place.

[–]ILovesMeSomeJunk[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Your message is really helpful in providing direction. It makes sense to start over with the touching, then to kino, and onward. Are you suggesting working up to actually initiating, or do these moves in addition to it? I don't want to go Rambo on the physical side and get set back even further by hitting her 'repulsed' button.

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Again, you have to get to the point where you do not fear pushing her repulse button.

To answer the question, yes it is true that in-artfully used Kino is repulsive and "creepy" so I would separate the two (i.e. build up to using light Kino more and more frequently during the day without using this to "initiate") but I would not curtail doing whatever you call "initiating." So yes, decouple light Kino and initiation- because the goal is really to get your wife used to being touched by you and not to lead into sex. However, once she is more used to being touched (and you will know when she relaxes/melts into your touch) you might then find that "initiating" works a lot better if you turn that light touch into a light rub of the neck and jaw line and then slide your hand behind her head for a kiss.....works better than...so, do you think you might let me have sex later?

[–]weakandsensitive3 points4 points  (5 children) | Copy

Fuck man. Grow some balls and break up with her. Give her the chance to be happy. Fuck you're a selfish cunt.

Fuck you for thinking that going through a miserable existence for two more years is somehow a value add.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

going through a miserable existence for two more years is somehow a value add

I don't get it. If he just splits and get back out there in the shape he is in, he will probably end up with an even worse situation. Thought the value add, is for him.

[–]weakandsensitive2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

there was an article on the internet somewhere about women begging to be broken up with and men not having the courage to do it. op's wife is clearly over him to the point of indifference. sometimes the best thing to do for a sick dog with cancer is to shoot it in the head, not to put it through 2 more years of agonizing treatment that may or may not result in a cure.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Yes, that article was a great one from Rollo. Could apply here. I am surprised how long he has stayed with the marriage. I will almost bet that he was buffering it all with porn, for years.

I have a natural inclination to fix problems and rely only on myself, but this time I need some help.

This was the comment that made me doubt that he will ever have the ability to accurately introspect and fix himself, without a huge dose of reality.

Looking at what I just wrote, I can see your point, his best shot at reality is to do just as you said, give the poor wife a break and leave. Then he will be forced to get it out there in the real world.

[–]WesternhagenWinner0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Then he will be forced to get it out there in the real world.

Or retreat into self-pity, porn and fapping...

[–]WesternhagenWinner2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

So what was up with you? Why didn't you want to have sex with your wife? Were you emotionally/physically/sexually abused as a kid? Erectile dysfunction? Low T? Have you had your T level checked? Did you ever have a successful sexual relationship with a woman before you got married?

If there is some fundamental psychological or physiological problem with you - and it is hard to imagine that there isn't - you need to get that addressed before you try to fix things with your wife.

[–]NightFire450 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This is what I'm wondering and why does he now suddenly want sex?

[–]ILovesMeSomeJunk[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I don't believe it is physical. I only had one GF before meeting my wife, no problems there, but she was the aggressor sexually. T is on the high side of normal range, no ED, no abuse, possibly a small religious element. My navel gazing has me thinking now that a lot of my problems stem from refusing to be vulnerable in any way and being fiercely independent. That prevents a lot of forms of intimacy, and this is one of them. I've always wanted to have sex, fuck, and play crazy games with my wife - I think about it daily. I avoided taking action for too long and realize I don't want to live with the regrets of denying her and failing to overcome my fears and unhealthy boundaries.

[–]WesternhagenWinner4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Twenty years of sexual aversion is the product of being "fiercely independent"? (Yet not so "fiercely independent" that you didn't get married in the first place.) You will have to forgive the skepticism that there is not something huge you aren't telling us. Something that has conditioned you to avoid sex. You better see a therapist and figure out what it is and how to fix it. No amount of lifting and learning RP behaviors, by itself, is going to overcome that conditioning.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (9 children) | Copy

This is a case that the red pill "Dread" is almost certain to backfire. Because you've essentially dreaded your wife for 20 years by avoiding intimacy and she's actively repulsed by being married to a eunuch.

I don't even know if MRP is right for you, bud. Because you haven't been beaten down through the years and need to reclaim your masculinity. You aren't being denied sex-- you've denied her the gift of being married to a man.

If you keep coming here, you'll probably get a lot of mixed messages like "STFU, lift, AA, AM" etc and you'll screw it all up and be in an even worse hole.

But there's good news. She wants to be with you (for some unknown reason that I can't fathom). There's no dread tricks that will work for you. There's just the process of being a better person-- owning your shit, keeping commitments, diet and exercise, being an attentive person to your wife, your kids, and your friends.

First, stop jacking off.

Second, stop flirting with random girls. I know it's fun and it validates you, but it's low value behavior.

Third, forget about being higher SMV than her. You're not.

Fourth, develop some male friends that you can count on.

After that, you decide what's important

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I don't even know if MRP is right for you

I do. Active Dread (levels 6-12) are the wrong approach right now but when he gets up to that level in a year or so watch the pussy juice gates open wide.

[–]ILovesMeSomeJunk[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks for the encouragement. I will do it. Or at least do my part to get there.

[–]donedreadpirateRed Beret0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

You aren't being denied sex-- you've denied her the gift of being married to a man.


Second, stop flirting with random girls. I know it's fun and it validates you, but it's low value behavior.

You mean in general or just if you're this guy?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

This guy.

Nothing wrong woth keeping sharp. This guys not even in the game

[–]donedreadpirateRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah, this is an interesting case.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Flirting with girls can be good to stay sharp, practice game, establish a little dread, etc, but this guy is using it as a coping mechanism to avoid his wife. I mean, sex once a year and you're out gaming other girls instead of banging your wife who's DTF and sleeps with you every night?

[–]donedreadpirateRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah, agreed. We're on the same page.

[–]ILovesMeSomeJunk[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

This. Hard to hear, though thank you. You also verified what I was thinking about the AA and AM ideas, they seem to just irritate her at this point.

[–]MRPFuckMe10 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. This is not the normal MRP situation. You might first try just being nice to her without expecting or hoping for any sort of response. Just do kind-hearted things. I sort of feel like this is a situation where if you can get past this bullshit you've built up for 20 years (no small task, mind you) there might be an explosion of crazy fucking.

But it's just odd. Like other guys have said, I feel like you're leaving something out. Sex once a year for 20 years? That poor fucking woman.

[–]PBRistasty1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Attraction is as much mental as physical. Think about that for a bit.

Right now you are so fucked that she literally has no reason to do anything but fall asleep on you......period.

Start planning shit now. All of it. As in making sure the bills are paid on time. Kid got a recital? Make damn sure you got it covered whether it by you or her.

Sink starts to leak? She finds out because you told her the plumber is coming at noon tomorrow.

DO NOT do this in a see what i did hon way. Just matter of factly have your shit together.

Lift. Now.

Accept that this is gonna be a long long pull and at the end you may well not be together anymore but you damn sure will be a better person for it.

Read the fucking side bar again because this is all basic shit that you should have been doing from day fucking one and its obvious you haven't.

Edit: on mobile and I have no idea why this isnt formatted correctly...  

[–]maxofreddit2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

This as well.

You need to get ahead of the ball. Like WAY ahead.

NONE of this is going to come naturally, btw. It's going to be a daily battle to keep yourself on track. Don't look for motivation, just get it done.

[–]screechhaterRed Beret0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

long road ahead, but salvageable

Start with the easy shit, "you look nice today"

"I've started trying the Red Pill ideas - attempting to pass shit tests and comfort tests (which seem really rare), frame, fogging, and STFU'ing. She claims I've been a "jackass" lately, so I'm not sure I'm getting it right though. Maybe I'm missing and failing the comfort tests and adding too much Rambo."

Kill the Rambo shit and be careful that the STFU is applied when your mind draws a blank and you have no answer. Going "deaf mute" w/STFU is causing the "Jackass" comment

A right step is to tell her, "I screwed up in the past and rejected you..... My mistake, it was not you, it was me...." Don't go into the spanking it to fantasies of other women (dah) and how you thought you settled DON'T Do explain to her that you take full ownership of causing the pain of rejection and you would like to work on rebuilding the trust Sounds like a weak thing to do, but it in reality, it's the olive branch of beta comfort women need, I didn't say to be a crying groveling puke spilling bitch, though.

The fix to this is to be attractive, willing to be open, without vomit (and now realizing it was you,) and not groveling.

Initiate, but be ready for her bruised ego and pent up pain of rejection to rebuff you. Try to remain stoic

[–]ILovesMeSomeJunk[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Salvageable. That is a good thing to hear. Now to make it happen..

I did tell her the first half of your suggestion. I also told her I am working on myself and fixing us. She has since commented that she sees no changes. I know it will take awhile, but I know that I have made progress. I have to keep it going and not be discouraged at this point.

Your comment about rebuilding trust - can you elaborate on that a bit?

[–]screechhaterRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Well, why are you asking if you should be initiating if you told her you you are working on it ?

When you make a promise to do something and don't deliver what happens ? Well ? So, instead of talk, do.

The very fact you recignizred you got a problem, is the first step.

Stop fapping. Save it all for her. She will know That's how you build trust

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

MRP is in the business of building a better man not saving relationships. Divorce her. Don't waste years of your life in the covert contract of getting her to fuck you. 20 years and only 2 dozen fucks is starting way too far behind the eight ball.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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