Withdrawing attention without being butthurt

FereallyRed · 2019-07-01T15:32:45+00:00

Copypasted from a JackTen comment from here...

The analog to a woman's sexuality is a man's attention. The basic transaction in male/female courtship is men trading attention and women trading sex. Every type of male-female interaction follows this. Little boys tease the girls they actually like the most. High school boys tolerate a shitty rom-com movie to get a hand job in the back seat in the theater. College boys put in the time to throw keggers so the cute sorority girls come by. And so and so forth.

So women typically react to undesirable behavior -- undesirable attention -- by shutting down sex. When your wife would observe the Blue Pill you, and took stock of the lumpy, slothful, passive person she called her husband, is she going to feel particularly attracted to that? If she going to respond to watching you waste so much attention on videogames or junk food, with sex? Of course not. It would be nice if women could communicate this, if they could plainly state, look, you're acting like a loser, and I'm not attracted to losers. But they can't, that kind of overt communication is not what they're used to. All they can really do is nag that you play videogames while they do chores, and then you do some chores, and wonder why she still doesn't want to have sex.

Because what happens if they do communicate it overtly? Our egos could take it if they said, "you're acting like a loser, please engage in some attraction-enhancing activities instead, even if they have nothing to do with me." But instead the women that do try and overtly communicate it say something like this: "we're not having sex until [you fulfill some condition that has nothing to do with sex]," which even some Blue Pill betas would consider that a "weaponizing sex" and a "damaging ultimatum."

Men are bad at covert communication, and women are bad at overt communication. So realize when Red Pill men are instructed to withdraw attention when their wife is acting undesirable, you're advising covert communication that they're very likely bad at. This is why we talk so much about "covert contracts" -- we're trying to speak covertly and then getting upset when our wives don't respond. Of course they don't respond, because we're bad at it.

Which is why so many guys stumble in here, saying their wife shot them down for sex, they fucked off out of bed and tried to do something else, and their wives accused them of being "butthurt." This is why it goes as poorly as a woman saying, "no videogames, no sex." Both situations -- the woman giving her husband an overt sexual ultimatum and the man ignoring his wife after he was turned down for sex -- invites feelings of manipulation, hostility, confrontation.

Should you withdraw your attention if your wife is behaving in a way that doesn't deserve your attention? Of course. What you should not do is clumsily bring your attention level from 100 to 0. Your wife is not entitled to your attention, but she is entitled to feel upset when you suddenly withdraw your attention after a pattern of years of giving her attention unconditionally. And if you just swallowed the Red Pill, as I said, you will not have the frame to deal with an upset wife who is pissed that you're changing the rules.

Because you are, in fact, changing the rules. The reason why "a husband is not entitled to have sex with his wife on demand, unconditionally" is not a controversial statement is because this is accepted conventional wisdom. "A wife is not entitled to get her husband's attention on demand, unconditionally" is not accepted conventional wisdom. Your wife, and likely everyone else in your life, including yourself until you swallowed the Red Pill, really did think those were the rules. And this is what upsets people, just like "no videogames or no sex" also comes across as changing the rules.

But "a sustained pattern of undesirable behavior resulting a loss of attraction and thus a lack of desire for attention and/or sex" -- those are pretty conventional rules too. Which is why a marriage counselor would completely support a wife who painstakingly described her lack of libido as being the result of all her husband's loser actions, but would scold a wife who gave her husband that "no videogames or no sex" ultimatum.

It’s simple…give the ‘hard no’ to her initiations.

And this is why I typically advise against newly unplugged guys doing exactly this. A "hard no" will come across as changing the rules, and this will piss of your wife, because you're basically telling her you were complicit in those rules until you stumbled across a subreddit and decided otherwise. You are absolutely entitled to withdraw your attention, but there are countless ways you can do so, over time, with much less confrontation and damage done to your marriage in the process. The classic method is not explicitly withdrawing your attention in direct response to undesirable behavior, but gradually adding activities to your life, activities that direct your attention elsewhere. Because what are the likely outcomes of these two scenarios?

Wife: "Do you want to get frozen yogurt and then watch some Netflix tonight?" You: "No, because you didn't fuck me last night."

OR

Wife: "Do you want to get frozen yogurt and then watch some Netflix tonight?" You: "Maybe another time, I've got my softball game tonight."

So yes, for you unplugging guys, your wife will turn you down for sex, and you'll be so tempted to leave the room and otherwise withdraw your attention in direct response. Don't do this. Take a deep breath, remain stoic. At that very moment, continue to do whatever activity you were currently doing. If you were watching a shitty TV show with your wife, finish watching that shitty TV show. Use that time to take stock of your life, to ponder how things got here, spending your evenings watching TV shows you don't like, with a woman who doesn't seem to like you very much. Start thinking about a plan to change that situation, and what kind of goals would indicate you're succeeding in that plan. Then, when the TV show is done, excuse yourself to go to the bathroom, then go to another room, and start writing down some notes for that plan.

The next morning, your wife may want to kiss you goodbye before you go to work, as she often likes to do. You will be upset once again, wondering why she gets the attention and intimacy of a kiss while you get nothing in return. And then she'll text you inane shit during the day, getting pissy if you don't promptly text her back and acknowledge you'll do everything on that "honey-do" list. Once again, ponder how you got here, come up with a concrete solution to get yourself out, and until then proceed normally. Your wife asks you do run errands after work because you're a loser who has no friends to hang out with, or hobbies to pursue, after work. You start improving your life and your marriage by fixing that, not by abruptly not answering texts. Not answering texts is just going to piss her off and have her accusing you of being an asshole.

Are you an asshole simply because you didn't answer your wife's text on demand? Of course not. Do you have the frame to resist her calling you an asshole without losing your cool? Without DEERing? Without blurting out maybe you'd respond to her texts if she put out once in awhile? For a lot of us still struggling to choke down the Red Pill, the answer to those questions is "no." Until your frame is strong enough, then simply continue to comply with most of the old rules your wife perceives (ie. she is entitled to your attention unconditionally), while you act to subvert them over time.

Because your wife will ask you to do some annoying errand, and you'll say you have a softball game, and she'll get pissed off. Pissed off something else has a higher priority for her attention than herself. But those are easy enough Shit Tests to deal with, because you'll be arguing about softball, and you'll never have to say anything that sounds remotely close to, "you're not entitled to my attention." You will simply act, over a sustained and gradual period of time, in a way that changes the rules without even her realizing it.

boy_named_su · 2019-07-01T17:06:55+00:00

Stop worrying about being perceived as butthurt. It's so fucking weak

Who gives a fuck if some dumb chick thinks you're upset, when you aren't?

rpsheepdog · 2019-07-01T12:25:03+00:00

If you're constantly keeping an open communication and then draw back it will look like you're butthurt. Yes, you're getting your point across, but again, you look butthurt.

The solution would be to just stop texting and dm'ing so much.

latinasonly · 2019-07-01T16:45:47+00:00

"are you angry" who isn't when your around

"did i upset you" looks like someone is a little slow, i think the answer to your question is a little obvious

or "do you enjoy being annoying"

If people are being annoying let em know. no shame. The sooner you let them know , the less angry/butthurt you will be.

instead of agree and amplify , ridicule the other person.

as always the emotions accompanying your words moreso than the words themselves are what make you sound butthurt

Title	Withdrawing attention without being butthurt
Author	PrincepsFerrous
Upvotes	19
Comments	9
Date	July 1, 2019 11:40 AM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/askTRP
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/asktrp/comments/c7rivs/withdrawing_attention_without_being_butthurt/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/askTRP/withdrawing-attention-without-being-butthurt.244066 https://theredarchive.com/post/244066

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