Jesus is the Answer... | RPChristians

This is a post from r/ChristianManosphere, I figured I would get feedback from here.

Jordan Peterson recent had a conversation with Dr. Oz on the meaning of life.

A few concepts from their discussion:

Life is tough with malevolence and suffering
We have the ability to overcome this - there is hope
We do this by first stopping to do evil but then moving on to do good
The Christian model somewhat fits this with the original 10 commandments orienting yourself to avoid doing destructive things and then moving onto Christ who is the ideal man who oriented himself in the world as a force for good

In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.

seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

These are deep ideas. Ideas worth spending weeks, months or years contemplating.

There are going to be many topics discussed on this subreddit and some will seem grim and not fair for men (that is not the focus of this post). The point is this - the manosphere including topics like MGTOW, Red Pill, Men's Right etc - all come across similar problems - they see society moving in a way that is destructive. Now, many react differently - MGTOW often will say let the world burn or detach while the Red Pill types will try to to make their personal situation better (but often ignore the societal criticisms). I hate using terminology like Red Pill and MGTOW because everyone has a different definition of these which confuses discussions.

But what is the solution to all this? It's going to be Christ. Christ is the ideal man who lived sacrificially, lived by God's spirit and oriented himself in the world to be a force for good. He is the ultimate example. Because of this, we must focus on Christ first and foremost. There will be discussions about marriage, alimony, child support, feminism, social media, abortion, socialism, and the general bend towards destruction of the west due to all these factors - but one things remains. Christ is going to be the focal point always because he explains God. He explains everything.

So if you are a man trying to figure out how to navigate this world that is filled with bad advice, little role models, many empty pursuits and in general - lack of meaning...

Then the ideas that we discuss here should help you. The ideas we discuss could change your life.

Goodnight and good luck.

[–]ReddJiveRecovering | MRP Endorsed3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

I take some exception to how you classify Red Pill men here.

Red Pill in general forces men of all faiths and backgrounds to see the world as it truly is. Not how they were told it is or should be nor what their own emotions tell them. We are to accept the world for what it is we cannot change it. In fact the Bible even warns of it if one were to pay close enough attention.

Even in Christian sense this is true though the Bible tells the faithful to make inroads and not be concerned of the outcome for it all is for the glory of God. This is where the paths diverge for Red Pill. The secular side considers RP amoral, meaning how a man conducts his life is his business as long as he adheres to the Rule Zero and achieves his life’s mission within his frame. I am being brief on purpose.

Christian RP theory would disagree about the pursuit of Rule Zero and replace it with the Bible as the framework in which this is seen. Ergo morality matters. RP men in general (non faithful) are not even concerned with changing the world nor about improving it.

I really despise where the MGTOW movement has ended up. The current ideal is not How it started but weaker elements have taken it over.

In any case your point is clear that the same road posts on the way to improving masculinity as the same. It’s all the same. That should not surprise anyone here, if it all belong to Him then it is all for his end? Yes?

In this sub it should show the validity of the Christian faith. My professor in college used to affirm that Christianity is the only religion that can be proven with historical evidence. Then he would proceed to do so (Dr. Paul Maier if anyone knows of him).

The world proves the existence of the faith simply by it’s existence and the principles man uncovers. It’s the attribution back to Christ that many miss. Such as the ecological theory of Trophic Cascade. A story is told of how wolves were brought back into the Yellowstone park because the deer population was out of control. By bringing this one predator back the park flourished again. Here’s a good link:

https://youtu.be/ysa5OBhXz-Q

Apply this theory to RP and you will see by a man’s actions of improving, asserting himself, and returning to his rightful place the third and fourth after effects will happen. Where I see the difference is that Christians intend to do this, and may even work to futility in trying. For these men the work is the reward since the glory and sacrifice are seen.

non-Christian RP men are not concerned, though they might benefit or even recognize it. Changing the world is not their goal nor mission. What happens happens. Their life is their mission.

[–]JamesSkepp0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

RP men in general (non faithful) are not even concerned with changing the world nor about improving it.

That's demonstrably not true. Just b/c we don't start with faith or god as starting point doesn't men we're not working on making people get better. Your argument is disingenuous b/c you know better.

My professor in college used to affirm that Christianity is the only religion that can be proven with historical evidence.

First of all, joke no joke, John 20:29, secondly:

Such as the ecological theory of Trophic Cascade. (...) wolves

I can apply the same logic to the following statement: the packs of wolves secretly worship different gods and that's why they fiercely fight with other packs, the simple evidence for this is that wolf packs exist.

You basically said that, regardless of whether a RP man is Christian or not, he's still doing god's work. Thus you're implying we're all subservient to god whether we like it or not.

This in turn is simply not true, even according to god himself (not to mention TRP ideas, pun intended), b/c he gave us free will and thus the ability to reject him. Which leads me to this:

I realize this reply is borderline against Rule 3, but, for the same reason you don't like Christianity to be denigerated by outsiders, I don't like TRP ideas being subverted by hamstering it with theology and I don't like you stating that we're all slaves of destiny/faith. This is a BP argument, an advanced form of "just be yourself", and as such should have no place on any sub that adheres to actual RP rules.

[–]ReddJiveRecovering | MRP Endorsed0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]JamesSkepp0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]ReddJiveRecovering | MRP Endorsed0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago* (10 children) | Copy Link

You make a very good point. In the first draft of my essay, I added a sentence that said "I hate to use terms like red pill and mgtow because everyone means something different by them and it confuses thinking." However, it was such a long aside and I think that one idea deserves it's own post.

The idea "the red pill forces men to see the world how it is" - is very general and vague. Some red pill guys will say that it's red pill to sleep with 100 women and never marry. You will say it's red pill to not have premarital sex and follow the Bible. Some will say Red Pill is being "alpha" (another large vague term with no meaning - when we use language like this, I would challenge the writer to write WITHOUT these terms - if he can't write it then the ideas are obfuscated in his mind). Red Pill is so vague that it has no true definition. If we say, "see the world how it is" as the definition, you are somehow assuming there is one shared world view - unless, you agree that red pill can have 100 definitions, depending on what each man "sees the world as it is".

This is where the paths diverge for Red Pill. The secular side considers RP amoral.

again, I don't agree. The idea that the only difference between the red pill world views - is one set thinks actions are amoral and the other thinks we should follow God's will is a vast generalization. Some men say red pill and think there are moral ways to pursue women, some don't. Some are Christians and amoral, some are athiest and moral. But then we say, "oh they aren't true christians then". Which is the socialism argument, "socialism hasn't worked because we haven't had true socialism yet."

Rule Zero

I try to avoid terminology as it is not only misunderstood but also confuses speech. I don't know "rule zero" - why not just briefly state what it is?

Again, I over simplified in my post (which I address in my first paragraph). Even my oversimplification of MGTOW or Red Pill are not fair. There are some MGTOW who don't want to watch the world burn. But yes, hatred of women is an unfortunate but understandable end for some when you understand the pain, suffering, betrayal or lack of success some have had with women.

The world proves the existence of the faith simply by it’s existence and the principles man uncovers.

These - "we can prove faith" arguments are usually dull to me and in general, unclear, vague, confusing language that is circular and not helpful.

Our discussion here is all over the place - terminology / definitions, over generalizations (which I am guilty of due to wanting the post to be brief).

Apply this theory to RP.

Again, I don't even know what this means... Apply this theory to "the idea of seeing how the world really is"? What does that even mean? I would love for you or anyone to clearly define what Red Pill means. I read the sidebar here multiple times, I've read the side bars of other Red Pill forums (including TRP) - I've yet to see someone clearly define this term in all the instances that it is used... "that's red pill, that's blue pill, that's purple pill". etc. Instead I see people saying how this or that is Red Pill and when it's something they don't like, it's Blue Pill - what do we mean by those words? Who knows. I think if "Red Pill" means something, you should be able to write your response without using the words "red pill" and use clear language instead.

In summary, let me quote what I said:

while the Red Pill types will try to to make their personal situation better (but often ignore the societal criticisms)

I agree with this. I see many that call themselves red pill focused on making their situation better and not paying attention to the society criticisms that MGTOW men acknowledge that are destroying the west. BOCTAOE (but of course there are obvious exceptions).

[–]ReddJiveRecovering | MRP Endorsed1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]taanews1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]ReddJiveRecovering | MRP Endorsed0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]RStonePT0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]ReddJiveRecovering | MRP Endorsed0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]RStonePT0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]ReddJiveRecovering | MRP Endorsed0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]RStonePT0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Title	Jesus is the Answer...
Author	Luke418
Upvotes	13
Comments	16
Date	July 7, 2019 5:55 PM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/RPChristians
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/RPChristians/comments/ca9pid/jesus_is_the_answer/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/RPChristians/jesus-is-the-answer.301214 https://theredarchive.com/post/301214

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