I just finished having a long conversation with an old friend about MGTOW, that didn't end well. I recently made serious life changes, exiting an 8.5 year relationship with a truly incredible woman, not because the relationship was failing, our love had never been stronger, but because I realized we would both be better off. This friend of mine, who is big on MGTOW, has since been treating me like I'm part of some elite club that is MGTOW.

During our last conversation I felt like I was talking to a cult member. He was telling me I was swallowing the blue pill, because I was trying to explain that women as a whole would benefit from MGTOW, and that there is just about as much wrong with your average ape-like chode man, as there are with your average entitled princess. And, even more frustrating is his insistence on trying to make my ex, -his friend BTW- out to be some kind of heartless bitch.

IMHO, I think the guy has some pretty toxic beliefs about women that aren't going to serve him well in life. He told me that if I were to engage with fellow MGTOW in some kind of forum like this you all would set me straight on this, so let me lay out my story, and you tell me if I'm missing something here.

First of all, about my ex. We met at a bus stop while I was on my way to go out sarging with some buddies at a local club. At the time I was a budding little PUA, not the chody MM Style-clonebot type, I was student of natural direct game, inner game stuff. I have an extensive background in NLP, so I picked it up pretty fast, and was beginning what was to become a lifestyle coaching practice. Anyhow, this girl, my ex, she was about as good as they come, super hot, great in bed, sexually submissive, which I like, quite inexperienced but into and wanting to try anything. She was incredibly easy to get along with, as long as the sex was good, she was happy. The only compliant I ever had, and the only thing we ever fought about was her terrible sense of time. OMG, you have no idea.

At the time she was coming out of a LTR that was also an amicable brake up very similar to how ours ended, the guy had to GHOW, and ended up becoming a very successful businessman with some high quality problems. She and I are good friends with all her exes. They were still FBs, which I was very much cool with, and I was very clear in managing expectations, explaining that I had this pickup coaching career I was getting off the ground, and wasn’t interested in monogamy. She not only understood this, she found this quite attractive.

Now this is where the story gets predictable. I ended up losing interest in pursuing other women.Ooutside of having them join us, of course. This soon started to negatively affect my motivation to keep up my coaching practice. Without a 100% genuine interest in the women I was meeting, I didn’t believe my style of game could work in the field. I didn’t want to teach what I couldn’t demonstrate, so I ended up feeling like it was her, or my coaching work; I chose her. You guessed it, the relationship killed my dreams. But, it also killed hers. We were too comfortable and satisfied with each other that we pretty much sunk into a relatively uneventful life together. The only regret I have about the relationship was that I let it get that comfortable. That’s pairbonding for you, though. It can turn a PUA into a total chode. Exempli gratia, Neil Strauss. (Only partially joking. *see below)

FFW 8 years, we couldn’t even get ourselves out with our good friends down the hall from us, let alone to hook up for the hot fantasies we would entertain while fucking and masturbating together. One day at the beach while she was home sick, I realized I couldn’t even get myself to start a conversation with the people sitting around me. What the fuck have I let myself become? OMG, I think I’m a chode. Over the next few hours something happened to me. I suddenly lost all attachment, desire or need for approval from anybody, or for anything. I snapped back, and when I got home I had a long and honest conversation about how I was feeling. I was pretty much thinking it out loud. I didn’t intend on ending our relationship when I started talking, but that’s where it ended up going. Contrary to my expectations, she fully understood and supported me. She cried, she was clearly quite sad, but at the same time she was happy for me, because she could see I was 1000% congruent.

I really loved her, and I still do. I didn’t want her to have to suffer from me suddenly turning her life upside down practically overnight. I expected her to have to do the thing where she would invent reasons to hate me, and then blame me for everything wrong in her life while she found some way to get over the loss, and into hopefully a more suitable relationship. Then a remembered I was dealing with a NAWALT, cause not all women could fit the bill for the man I was when we started. I promised her I would help her rebuild her social life, and find her a good guy to take over for me. She knew she could have just about any man she laid eyes on, but she was as much out of practice as I was, and remember she started out pretty inexperienced to begin with.

Here’s something else you will need to know about me; I have absolutely no sexual jealously. None. Not one fiber of it in my body. I’m actually unsure if I’m a mutant with an anomalous superpower, or if this is the result of a conscious reasoned out decision on my part. I believe I’m incapable of sexual jealousy, but I did decide that sexual jealousy was an irrational behavior suited to lesser apes of our species, but this was before I had any real sexual experience, so for all I know I could just be the weirdo every guy I’ve tried to explain this to thinks I am. Either way, I feel no need to challenge that belief about myself. Oh, if any of you have not read “The Truth” yet, spoiler alert, the truth is, sexual jealousy caused Neil Strauss to turn tail and run when he was inches away from a godlike level of liberation, and then choose to write that book as a giant apology to the world for stepping out of line, where he promises to be a good boy by raising a family, white picket fence and all that beta-male societal bullshit. I can’t wait for his next book, “The Truth about divorce”, ha.

Back to what I was saying, you know how we had an open relationship, and would invite others to join us? Well, I came up with an answer to my MGHOW buddy’s challenge to explain what she contributed to the relationship. Apparently, MGTOW are not supposed to believe that women can contribute any value to the world, as far as I can tell from the way this guy goes on about it. He seemed to have his gotcha moment when I couldn’t come up with a good answer on the spot. “You contributed this that and the next thing, but what did she ever do for you? What did she contribute to your life?” (Paraphrasing) Aside from helping me develop a better sense of personal style, which he didn’t think counts, (trust me someone needed to coach me on that unconscious incompetence in my life) she contributed to my life by joining me on this adventure of sexual discovery with wanton abandon, committing to radical honesty and total acceptance. I learned a lot about myself and the heights of sexual pleasure women are capable of, and without the level of trust and personal safety that came with our love for each other, I don’t think she could have felt as comfortable doing some of the things we did. I should have known better than to let our pair bonding get the better of me, but that’s on me. I hate to admit it, but I used it as an excuse to avoid the fear of success. I absolutely hate excuse-making, and if there is one thing that has defined me as a person, it’s my fear of self-deception. That robbed me of my childhood, growing up in a strict cult, and now I just let it eat away almost the whole of these last 8.5 years. And, it robbed her of the life we could have had if I had better managed my fears and emotions. I’m pretty sure she was disappointed that I chose to give up on my coaching, even though it was to commit to her fully. She’s now at the age where her biological clock is ticking, so click whirr, she needs to find a nest-bird to help her manage that whole project. Plenty of quality men out there who would happily volunteer to castrate themselves before her, and play that role. She’s terribly good armcandy, and would make a terrific trophy wife. My point is, her time of liberated freedom could be cut short by something far more powerful then pairbonding, far more powerful than any other known parasite; a human child. And, I wasted much of that time. Sure, she could have woken up to the fact that I was not being true to myself by handing over my manhood, but aside from me, she had never known a man so intellectually and sexually liberated. I was still her best option.

So finally, here’s my problem with my friend’s, and hopefully not your take on MGTOW… Which BTW, up until very recently I thought was an acronym for a contemporary societal phenomenon, not some kind of “movement”, or therapy group like my buddy seems to think it is. My problem is that I’ve watched my friend, who refused my help back when I was coaching, become more and more resentful of women, spending half of the last several years off in Thailand fucking his brains out with hundreds of shallow, good looking, uncreative, Fleshlights with real flesh, but no lights. There was a time when he was the only friend I had, and the only person with whom I could talk to on a real intellectual level, way back when I was still recognizably autistic, and the world’s biggest chode. Now I can barely carry on a conversation with him that isn’t about what’s wrong with women. While he has taken some real steps to improve his life, now that he has given up on finding love in Thialand, I just hope he is on his way to eventually resurrecting the guy I used to know. But, I don’t see how that will happen if the guy can’t get properly laid by a real human being whom he can respect. His lack of all respect for women is going to eat him alive. People have witnessed this transformation becoming ever more shallow and socially uncharitable. It boggles my mind how he can blindly insist that my ex, who he works with and who considers him a friend, is somehow betraying me by jumping right into another relationship, and couldn’t have loved me as much as I thought she did because she skipped the whole morning and self-loathing a women is supposed to go through after having been dumped. That was exactly what I wanted her to do. I 100% encouraged her every step of the way. She knows she can trust me when I tell her something is ok, and she is sweet enough to still feel she should get that reassurance from me. She is now having the time of her life with a guy who seems pretty decent. Though a regular ape with apelike emotions, he can fuck her brains out proper (thee #1 relationship skill), he eventually had to sit her down for the monogamy, or “I have to own your sexuality” talk. I’m not the boss of her, I don’t play that game, she felt it was worth it, and has remained completely faithful. Knowing her, she will probably be able to keep that up for as long as he can remain interesting and good in the sack, or he foolishly gives up his plans to get a vasectomy and does the white picket fence thing. She knows I think she is absolutely insane for even contemplating that, but she doesn’t have forever to make up her mind, and these are the demons women have to face, I doubt I can understand what that’s like.

This is my other point, that my buddy can’t understand. Women are not a lesser species, they just have different struggles that come from a different physical and emotional makeup. They are much weaker than us for example, that’s not their fault. If you were physically handicapped I’m sure you would appreciate people offering to help out with the heavy lifting in your life. And I’m sure some liberal arts professor could come up with some bullshit neo-marxist frame-games to create a deep seated resentment for this oppressive system of micro-aggressions, and have some men parading through the streets demanding the government create some paternalistic legal framework to rid us of this “benevolent ableism”. Women as a whole are no more taken in by the trance of evolutionary influences, cultural/societal reinforcements, and bullshit victim framing as men are. Just look at the MRA/MHRA movement for god’s sake. For every shallow woman who can’t carry on a conversation about anything but gossip and celebrities, there is a goofball ape-chode who’s eyes gloss over if you steer a conversation off of cars, women, and meaningless details of various athletes' careers. We are all surrounded by the terrifying reality of 7 billion apes lacking any real awareness of their own apeishness. Quality women with true self-respect are all over the place. My friend can’t see that because he can’t get close enough to one to observe them reveal their real true nature. I’ve lost too many friends to 3rd wave feminism, now I think I might be losing a friend to MGTOW.

What are your thoughts? Am I swallowing the blue pill? Am I wrong to worry about my friend becoming an actual real life misogynist?

*edit grammar, punctuation