The devil is in the details

TheOGJammies · 2020-01-13T04:49:02+00:00

For example, where does compromise with one's partner come in?

In the early dating stages you really should not be comprising at all. Compromise is a luxury of a demonstrated comitted partner. Once you are in the relationship (>1 year) It depends on the specific issue - the idea is that a HVM would never ask you to compromise beneath your dignity and that it should be consistently reciprocal. He has to demonstrate that he would compromise to the same or greater level than he’s asking you for.

Where is the line between "not dating projects" and finding someone willing to grow with you?

The general idea is to always evaluate if the sacrifices you are making in the relationship outweigh tangible benefits. Would you be better off without this person?

How does one asses one's realistic " value" such that one doesn't ultimately end up deeply lonely because she thinks she's too good for anyone interested in her?

If you have a vagina, loneliness is a choice. If you are unable to find one man good enough then date multiple men to meet your needs and be ruthless about enforcing your boundaries.

Also, one of the rules is to avoid dating men who are "financially challenged", yet it seems feasible to me that there are HVM who just haven't amassed wealth yet.

you don’t want to commit to potential, you want to commit to demonstrated value. We’re generally of the opinion that you’re single until you’re married, so unless he’s planning to legally tie his financial success to yours via marriage there’s no reason to be exclusive to a man who has not settled his life enough to be an attractive partner.

Ms_Tilly · 2020-01-13T18:08:47+00:00

Any time I have given a man a chance or the benefit of the doubt it has not gone well for me. I honestly would rather be "lonely" than compromising for a relationship. I have an active life though and really enjoy time alone at home, so deeply lonely won't be in my future. Slightly lonely for affection, sure, but no man has been worth the compromise for me. Maybe I will find him one day, but I won't compromise for that.

I think making a man wait up to three months for sex is absolutely crucial. Some women here are afraid if they don't have sex with a man he will just go find it somewhere else. But that is the point. We don't want men who are only after sex. Let them go.

Travel is something I enjoy the most, so any man who can't afford to travel with me will not add value to my life. I don't make a ton of money, but I make enough to put money away for emergencies and travel. I need a man who is at least at my level and not below it.

I also don't want to start out with a man who won't plan dates or expects me to pay for half the date. I don't necessarily need a dinner date just to meet a man, which is recommended here. I'm fine with something casual for the first meeting. But if he wants to see me again, he better start planning some good dates and paying for all of it. This vets the losers. Once we're in a relationship I will occasionally treat him.

Women who are looking for marriage and kids have to vet even more carefully. I am not one of these women. I don't even want to live with another man. I prefer my own space.

Sbplaint · 2020-01-13T04:47:37+00:00

While I tend to agree with 99.9% of the advice on this sub, these same burning questions have been in the back of my mind as well.

Personally, I'm ashamed to admit I have been mostly unsuccessful at finding lasting love through online dating in recent years (me: late thirties, no kids, good career, financially independent, etc), but I would say that I dated mostly, if not ALL, HVM before age 35 (who typically resulted in exclusive, "functional" relationships, but didn't ultimately end in marriage for one very good reason or another...and usually by mutual agreement). So, part of me wonders if our current online dating landscape has pushed things so far the other way that we're all just becoming more collectively disillusioned and dysfunctional, as illustrated by the popularity of incel culture and even the whole "pornsick" phenomenon discussed on this sub. I can't even be sure if it's the Pickmeisha in me or my intellectual mind questioning these things, which just makes me mad/sad and reminds me of the first time I read "The Rules" in my early 20s, and felt the feminist in me getting majorly triggered, yet so desperate to make sense of it all that I was willing to look anywhere for answers.

I just feel like most of the criticism of this sub is so misplaced, since most of us would be thrilled to find love with the right guy...yet here we all are, commiserating (or conspiring, depending on who you ask) about the current state of things. I just hate it. I miss the world where there was at least some level of hope to be found...yet despite having one of the memes from this sub as my phone wallpaper to keep me accountable, I find myself feeling increasingly demoralized and just...avoidant. I have never been more repulsed by the idea of putting myself out there again than I am now, which can't be blamed on this sub, of course...but still, it just makes everything feel more dismal.

That said, I really don't want this post to be taken as criticism of this sub.....more than anything, I'm just so pissed that it's so relevant and necessary; and I miss the old me that still believed in love and had hope about things. :(

EOP-OPE · 2020-01-14T04:27:00+00:00

Girl I totally feel you. When it comes down to it the "rules" of fds are guidelines to help you successfully navigate the shit show that is dating. No one is saying you can't find a good man without following these rules to a T. But the fact of the matter is, as women, we have been conditioned by society to be people pleasing and maleable and many of us have a difficult time setting boundaries. I know I used to. That's where fds comes in.

Now I started dating my Nigel(nicest guy that ever lived) a few months before I found fds. We're going on 8 months now. He is undoubtedly a HVM but sometimes reading posts here I have to remind myself that these posts arent directed at me and my situation..because everyones situation is different. Being in a relationship with that nuance I feel I can give you some insight in this.

You bring up the issue of "not dating projects." I agree with the general message of that advice. People can talka big game, but fall short when it comes down to it. If they aren't doing anything to better their situation, throw the whole man out. On the surface, my Nigel is a project because he hasn't finished school and settled into his career...but as you say, the devil is in the details. He is in the middle of his master's and is applying to PhD programs. He previously worked in a "related" field(STEM, but very different parts of it) before realizing he was not happy and decided to change. He was a couple years into this process when I met him. To me this shows that he has direction, ambition and actionable, attainable goals that he has a history of meeting and continues to meet. He has shown this in other parts of his life too. He used to be morbidly obese and is now relatively fit and participates in a sport. He was not happy with his body so he set goals to change it and still continues an active lifestyle. This is the sort of guy you would not be "Bob the builder" to. He should be building himself on his own. You complement his life, and vice versa. You are not the one carrying the weight.

But with this, the men you are considering should show obviously show other high value traits. For example a HVM will have hobbies. My guy does his sport, plays an instrument, and reads all the time. I dated an actuary for 7 months who was the sweetest kid in the world, very social, but holy shit! all he was interested in was work, video games, and partying. I never paid a dime when I was out with him but lawd it was so boring! Surface level he was perfect but a LVM in the end. (Also was antivax lol). Now I pay for maybe 1/4 of the time we go out, possibly less. But he also doesnt have an actuary's sallary so ¯_(ツ)_/¯

My Nigel shows his value in other ways too. He doesn't watch porn at all- he actually is extremely uncomforted by it because of how it portrays women prepubescently. I don't shave so I was happy to hear that at first but the more I've gotten into fds the more relieved I've become and the more amazed I am he came to that on his own volition. The only "kink" he admits to is getting me off and eating me out. No degeneracy to be found. He also has never once made me doubt in his actions that he loves me. In fact, through his actions it was very apparent he did even before we said those words, and we waited like 4-5 months to say them. One thing that sorta bothered me about fds at first(and still does) is it's insistence that the guy should make it known their intentions on marriage by 6 months. Yet around six months, almost like clockwork, his intentions for forever were made clear. I'll sometimes read that stuff about timelines and roll my eyes but I have to remind myself I'm literally living it. My marriage timeline will probably be pushed back about a year because he's in school but still.

Coming back around to nuances in what fds espouses, one the biggest ones I've had to grapple with is attractiveness of your partner. Now my SO is the most attractive guy in the world to me, but objectively, he's pretty average. Occasionally when I see stuff about how you shouldnt settle for less attractive guys I find myself pretty offended.. until I bat myself in the head and remember those posts aren't directed towards me! I actually find him attractive and that's the difference! There are women out there who think dating men who they legitimately aren't attracted to is the way to go in a misguided attempt to find someone who will put them on a pedestal! That's the audience those posts are directed towards.

Sorry for the rant. This has been on my mind for a while now. I hope you can see through the example of my relationship how there is nuance as long the man in question can demonstrate he is, in fact, high value.

Title	The devil is in the details
Author	carrotriver
Upvotes	14
Comments	7
Date	January 13, 2020 1:00 AM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/FemaleDatingStrategy
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/comments/enwnrn/the_devil_is_in_the_details/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/the-devil-is-in-the-details.684926 https://theredarchive.com/post/684926

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