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"I argue that public health campaigns promoting ‘talk’ in response to male suicide neglect the interpersonal and structural contexts"

iainmf

April 14, 2021
33 upvotes
/r/MensRights
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/09581596.2021.1908959
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Post Information
Title "I argue that public health campaigns promoting ‘talk’ in response to male suicide neglect the interpersonal and structural contexts"
Author

iainmf

Upvotes 33
Comments 7
Date April 14, 2021 12:01 PM UTC
(5 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/mqp2n1/i_argue_that_public_health_campaigns_promoting/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/i-argue-that-public-health-campaigns-promoting.830924
https://theredarchive.com/post/830924
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Comments

[–]Frosty-Gate-8094 6 points7 points8 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

People are dying in millions and their solution is to 'talk'...

That sums up how much feminists and society values 'mens' lives.

[–]Oncefa2 4 points5 points6 points 5 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Interesting.

Here's the abstract:

An increasingly common way that high rates of male suicide are understood is via men’s ostensibly poorer abilities to talk about – and more generally seek help for – problems in general, and emotional problems specifically. This has led to the development of public mental health campaigns which urge men to ‘speak up’ more often about the problems they face. I argue that both the initial claim, and the enactment of this claim in public mental health campaigns, is problematic, resting on simplistic assumptions about men and gender difference, and serving to detract attention from structural drivers of suicide. Drawing on a narrative analysis of in-depth interviews with ten men who had self-harmed, thought about, or attempted suicide, this paper focuses attention on the content and contexts of ‘talk’. I argue that public health campaigns promoting ‘talk’ in response to male suicide neglect the interpersonal and structural contexts in which talk occurs, including considerations of power and structural inequalities.

My first thought is that it does seem like men have problems talking about their emotions, but I also think we go overboard in society talking about this, to the point of literal victim blaming.

Male suicide is caused by a number is different problems in society, including systemic and institutionalized sexism and discrimination. Some of the biggest causes are destitution, financial problems, problems with employment, domestic violence, separation from their children (and for children, separation from their fathers), and other issues with our family court system. Not to mention things like male invisibility, male disposability, and the gender empathy gap. For example, if you look for help, and nobody cares, then you might stop looking. "Not seeking help" and "not talking about their emotions" are probably at the very bottom of this list and serve as a good scapegoat for people who want to ignore the more pressing issues that men deal with in society.

[–]UnconventionalXY 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

How do you talk with someone who doesn't understand your context?

I found therapy extremely difficult because most of what I said was interpreted in a different way to how I experienced it and I was unable to find the words to convey that experience.

There's a great line in the movie "Star Trek: Voyage Home" where McCoy says "You mean I would have to die to discuss thoughts on death?" which is kind of true, although we do our best to move forward in the absence of complete understanding.

At best we can only ever imagine what someone else is going through as much as our own experience aligns or can be extrapolated, at worst we will use our own experience which will be totally alien to the other person's experience.

Women will never fully understand what it is like to be a man and vice versa and I doubt we will ever find a way to explain it to the other. So, given this fundamental dilemma, how do we move forward?

[–]Oncefa2 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

What's wrong with talking to a male therapist?

I've heard stories of less than sympathetic male therapists too but you might have a better shot with one, statistically speaking.

[–]HAWAll 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Because talking doesn’t change things, it just opens an outlet.

[–]UnconventionalXY 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Talking to a male therapist wouldn't have helped as the issue wasn't gender related: it's the principle of the difficulty in understanding someone's context when you haven't experienced it yourself and words don't help because some things you can't find words for that the listener might identify with.

Being a good listener at least allows someone to give their side without being suppressed or chilled, but beyond that, not having a common context makes it difficult to directly address the issue.

There's a child development stage called Theory of Mind I believe, when a child realises other people aren't extensions of themselves and lead completely independent lives and don't know the things the child does. I swear some people act as though they never mastered that stage: unable to see anything beyond their own perspective as though everyone else is an extension of themself.

[–]Oncefa2 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

There's a child development stage called Theory of Mind I believe, when a child realises other people aren't extensions of themselves and lead completely independent lives and don't know the things the child does. I swear some people act as though they never mastered that stage: unable to see anything beyond their own perspective as though everyone else is an extension of themself.

I've known people in my life like this.

They just assume you know things because they know them. And not like academic facts or general knowledge. But like where they left something in the house. It's obvious to them where something is so they assume it should be obvious to you as well.

Then they call you stupid and throw a little temper tantrum because you can't figure out where the duck they left their hair curler last time they used it and you don't ever use the thing and don't know a damn thing about their hair gizmos and where they leave them in the house or why it's even your responsibility to go fetch it for them like you're a damn dog who only exists to run around the house and bring them things all day long.

Yes I'm talking from personal experience lol.

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