Sources request/ debate plans or ideas

Oncefa2 · 2021-03-08T21:10:41+00:00

There's actually a really good source about that.

This study found that the wage gap can be explained by married men earning roughly twice what everyone else makes.

https://image.cnbcfm.com/api/v1/image/105464403-ES1824Fig2_20180912010019.jpg?v=1537539693&

Basically single men, single women, and married women all make about the same amount of money. But married men make roughly twice what everyone else does. A fact that appears to be driven by women actively choosing high earning men to marry.

The fact that married women make just as much as single women is what's important though. Because this seems to contradict the idea that having kids is detrimental to your income (at least not enough to drive these trends). Instead the evidence indicates that hypergamy is what drives this, not child care. In fact the reason that women quit their jobs to begin with is usually based on the fact that they make less than their partner. Which is usually because women actively look for men who earn more money than them. And men respond by working twice as hard at their jobs in order to attract women.

This could just be a correlation: The data does "not imply that being married increases a man's wage," Guillaume Vandenbroucke, author of the report, notes. "It might be that men with higher wages are more likely to marry; therefore, the average married man earns a higher wage than the average single man."

Also of note is that married and single women earn very similar wages. That's surprising, says Vandenbroucke, since married women are more likely to have children than single women, and that's "not consistent with the view that the gender wage gap results from women having children earlier in life and losing ground in human capital accumulation relative to men."

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/21/married-men-are-earning-much-more-money-than-everyone-else-in-america.html

Another line of reasoning is, even if you buy that women quit their jobs when they have kids, and that impacts their future wages, why is it that they choose to quit to their jobs?

When you look at the data, this gender norm appears to be enforced by women, not by men. And it actually benefits women. After all, who wouldn't want to spend more time at home, with their kids, and not have to work? Staying home to spend time with your kids is a privilege so this can easily be viewed as female privilege sometimes backfiring and harming women.

Many women -- as many as 60% -- flat out admit that they're trying to find a man wealthy enough that they can have kids with him, quit their jobs, and then be a stay at home mom. In addition, around 80% of men would "switch places" and be the stay at home parent if they could. So this idea that stay at home parents are somehow oppressed really doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Both men and women would do this if they could. But only women hold the cards to make this a reality.

Sources for all that can be found here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/gjtj10/most_people_regardless_of_gender_prefer_to_stay/

Xon999 · 2021-03-08T19:18:57+00:00

That’s ignorant logic, correlating the amount of people who do it to wether or not they’re expected to do it. I could commit suicide (78%) and say I did it because society expects men to do it, but that wouldn’t be recepted as well, now would it? You could ask them to prove their claim, and they’ll use the amount of women doing it, which doesn’t prove anything.

SexyWithCheese · 2021-03-08T19:20:55+00:00

Well it's right, if you want a child you have to take care of it. That's not a bad thing. However it's ridiculous to say that society forces women to give birth since thats our way of reproduction and naturally women tend to get pregnant. So yea, for many women that will interfere with their career, if you don't want that, don't get a child.

bison_breakfast · 2021-03-08T19:55:24+00:00

There’s a lot less pressure on women to have children than there was in the past and there is a growing expectation for women to be “working moms”. There is such thing as a “Motherhood penalty” where moms who take time off to have a child have a harder time coming back into the workforce.

Idk why you would need to counter that because it doesn’t reflect itself in the gender pay gap until they make a choice to have children.

I’d use that point to advocate for more parental leave and social welfare.

David-Clowry · 2021-03-09T00:59:59+00:00

Something with the wage gap that also must be pointed out is that women might not be given jobs of higher inportance due to worries of possible pregnancy and the time off from that. This cant be dolved under capitalism really

mikesteane · 2021-03-09T03:49:23+00:00

Actually, society gives women every opportunity not to have children. How weak are they that they do thinks because they imagine it's what "society" expects of them?

Title	Sources request/ debate plans or ideas
Author	AkwardBee55
Upvotes	5
Comments	7
Date	March 8, 2021 7:05 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/m0n8pm/sources_request_debate_plans_or_ideas/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/sources-request-debate-plans-or-ideas.833048 https://theredarchive.com/post/833048

Comments