How do you debunk the wage gap to a person who believes it exists?

Rockmapper_ · 2020-07-10T21:37:16+00:00

It exists in a legal, justified sense. One Harvard university study observed railway workers over a period of time. Within this time period they basically found women take more unpaid time off, more holidays, and are less likely to work on weekends. From this, the man earns more simply because he does more work. I don't have a link to the study, but it should be easy enough to find on google and what I said comes from free recall. Hope this helps.

2020-07-10T20:57:50+00:00

If a person believes in the gender wage gap, it is because they have been indoctrinated into an ideological dogma, without applying critical thinking to the argument presented.

Therefore, you cannot convince this person to the contrary of what they believe, as that would require the person having critical thinking skills to examine your counterpoint objectively.

Even if you present them with 1,000,000 studies proving the argument to be unsound, you will still fail.

d_nijmegen · 2020-07-10T20:31:53+00:00

Just walk away from the conversation, not worth it. Just like religion. Trying to argue something doesn't exist to someone that WANTS to believe is futile.

Send a link and get on with your day.

duhhhh · 2020-07-11T00:08:27+00:00

An Analysis of Reasons for the Disparity in Wages Between Men and Women. This is the 2009 report for the Dept. of Labor ...

https://www.shrm.org/hr-today/public-policy/hr-public-policy-issues/Documents/Gender%20Wage%20Gap%20Final%20Report.pdf

This has links to sources for women outearning men before 30, hours worked, etc...

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-gender-pay-gap-is-a-complete-myth/

This explains the differences in career choices... https://fee.org/articles/harvard-study-gender-pay-gap-explained-entirely-by-work-choices-of-men-and-women/

This discusses the gender blind algorithm Uber pay gap with links to other analysis... http://archive.is/9OtEa

So wage gap is around 4% and much of that can be explained by ...

Tall people paid more than short people -

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/05/the-financial-perks-of-being-tall/393518/

Oncefa2 · 2020-07-10T22:37:31+00:00

One good study is the Korn Ferry study. They are an auditing company and they started doing wage gap research on the side using their clients as a data source.

It's a really good study because their sample size is huge, and it actually looks at differences for the same job. I don't remember the numbers off the top of my head but it's like 30 different countries and well over a million workers. Which is a sample size that is orders of magnitude larger than what you commonly find in social studies.

Anyway they found a job for job wage gap of around 1% to 3% in their study. The high end can be found in the Middle East and the low end in Europe (the UK is 0.8%).

They did not account for seniority, competence, credentials, experience, or unpaid time though (like where salary workers are paid the same regardless of how many hours they put in). So while most variables were controlled for, they still couldn't control for everything.

The point I like to make is that the more variables you try to control for, the smaller the gap gets. So on the surface it's like a 20% gap. But when you control for occupation, experience, and education, it drops to around 4.8%~7.1% (there's a DOL study commissioned by Obama that found that stat). And then when you control for company and job (which includes things like benefit packages and work-life balance), it drops to around 1%. And if you could further control for seniority, competence, and unpaid time, it would likely disappear completely.

The Korn Ferry study:

The Economist. (2017). Are women paid less than men for the same work?: When all job differences are accounted for, the pay gap almost disappears. The Economist. Available at: https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2017/08/01/are-women-paid-less-than-men-for-the-same-work

Korn Ferry. (2016). Gender Pay Analysis: Technical methodology and data report. Available at: http://info.haygroupupdate.com/rs/494-VUC-482/images/KFHG_Gender%20Pay%20Gap_Technical%20Report.pdf

The DOL study:

CONSAD Research Corporation. (2009). An Analysis of the Reasons for the Disparity in Wages between Men and Women. Available at: https://www.shrm.org/hr-today/public-policy/hr-public-policy-issues/Documents/Gender%20Wage%20Gap%20Final%20Report.pdf

user_miki · 2020-07-11T02:57:00+00:00

If women make 85% of all spending from where coming the money they spend if the wage gap exists.That means they spend men's money(and we all know that).Along with their pay, they take also the men's pay ,so there is a gap, but in opposite way.

Important is not how much money you make it is how much money you keep for your spending.

JoeTurner1402 · 2020-07-10T20:36:03+00:00

As noted just walk away. The individual is off their rails. They aren’t going to listen to facts. You’re just going to be called out for being a misogynist pig. Or racist. Or both. You cannot reason with the left. Just walk.

alclarkey · 2020-07-11T21:42:24+00:00

Ask them to prove it.

2020-07-12T19:01:39+00:00

with sources. You may now ask 'where do I find those sources', and its basically just a matter of google, yahoo, bing, any search engine you can. Whats important is also explaining why that misconception exists and the logic as to why its not a 'real' wage gap.

The myth of the wage gap exists because it takes the entire earnings men and pits it against the entire earnings of women. Men are more likely to have high profile jobs that make more, women do not. This isn't because women are being advanced up the ladder less, as you can also very easily cite sources for the very distinct career paths that men and women take starting with their degrees, with women preferring 'social' careers and men leaning more towards business and engineering.

Make sure you dig up the source that shows that women in the cities tend to make more than men in the exact same field.

How do you debunk the wage gap to a person who believes it exists?

Comments

Lips, K. A. (2016). Don’t Buy into the Gender Pay Gap Myth. Forbes. Available from: https://www.forbes.com/sites/karinagness/2016/04/12/dont-buy-into-the-gender-pay-gap-myth/#5b65f3322596

Phelan, J. (2018). Harvard Study: "Gender Wage Gap" Explained Entirely by Work Choices of Men and Women. FOUNDATION for ECONOMIC EDUCATION. Available at: https://fee.org/articles/harvard-study-gender-pay-gap-explained-entirely-by-work-choices-of-men-and-women//amp

Bolotnyy, V., & Emanuel, N. (2018). Why Do Women Earn Less Than Men? Evidence from Bus and Train Operators. Working paper. Available from https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/bolotnyy/files/be_gendergap.pdf

The Economist. (2017). Are women paid less than men for the same work?: When all job differences are accounted for, the pay gap almost disappears. The Economist. Available at: https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2017/08/01/are-women-paid-less-than-men-for-the-same-work

Korn Ferry. (2016). Gender Pay Analysis: Technical methodology and data report. Available at: http://info.haygroupupdate.com/rs/494-VUC-482/images/KFHG_Gender%20Pay%20Gap_Technical%20Report.pdf

CONSAD Research Corporation. (2009). An Analysis of the Reasons for the Disparity in Wages between Men and Women. Available at: https://www.shrm.org/hr-today/public-policy/hr-public-policy-issues/Documents/Gender%20Wage%20Gap%20Final%20Report.pdf

Title	How do you debunk the wage gap to a person who believes it exists?
Author	KindEar3
Upvotes	13
Comments	16
Date	July 10, 2020 8:27 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/howik1/how_do_you_debunk_the_wage_gap_to_a_person_who/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/how-do-you-debunk-the-wage-gap-to-a-person-who.848045 https://theredarchive.com/post/848045