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I'm 17. This is what English classes are about for French-Canadians. Tell me if you wanna see the whole thing.

Idumbbbz

May 13, 2020
60 upvotes
/r/MensRights

https://i.imgur.com/ZiIJywx.png

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Title I'm 17. This is what English classes are about for French-Canadians. Tell me if you wanna see the whole thing.
Author

Idumbbbz

Upvotes 60
Comments 32
Date May 13, 2020 4:06 PM UTC
(6 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/gj1x1e/im_17_this_is_what_english_classes_are_about_for/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/im-17-this-is-what-english-classes-are-about-for.852604
https://theredarchive.com/post/852604

Comments

[–]duhhhh 14 points15 points16 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Can your written take away from it that you are a horrible human being because you were born a bad boy and not a great girl? Then go to a student counselor to talk about the assignment and how it made you feel and you are now struggling because your teacher explained that girls are better? :-)

[–]tenchineuro 22 points23 points24 points 6 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

What does this have to do with the English language?

Maybe this would be appropriate for a sociology class, but not English.

And they mention 'positive masculinity', which I'm guessing means acting like a girl.

[+][deleted] -24 points-23 points-22 points 6 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

The assignment is effective to write a persuasive post about how this effects people. Seems like that qualifies for an English assignment to me. Being able to get your point across is important in writing.

[–]tenchineuro 29 points30 points31 points 6 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

  • Be the Best a Man Can Be - Act like a Girl.

This is social messaging, not language instruction.

And it's highly offensive to boys.

[+][deleted] -8 points-7 points-6 points 6 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Then write about that? As long as it’s graded by the actually ability to use English it shouldn’t matter. It would be the same if you were writing about a different commercial that was forcing gender roles where they don’t need to be.

[–]TerminusStop 9 points10 points11 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

So you're fine using anti semitic text to teach English?

[–][deleted] -4 points-3 points-2 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Most historical literature is oppressive to one group or another. I think tackling challenging topics is an important part of becoming a good writer and communicator. So, in short, I suppose yes I am. It would be different if ALL assignments surrounded this topic. Similarly, it would be a problem if all writing prompts were about racism. But being able to think and write critically and persuasively is important ESPECIALLY when the topic is difficult or unpopular.

[–]Idumbbbz[S] 6 points7 points8 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

For the two years we've been with her, all we've done is talking, reading, writing and even protesting for the environnement, human rights, etc. She even invited guests to talk in french about that stuff for entire classes. Although, I recognize the importance of these things.

[–]a-man-from-earth -2 points-1 points0 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

People here just want to be rage-baited.

[–]tenchineuro 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

As long as it’s graded by the actually ability to use English it shouldn’t matter.

That's not the way social messaging works at all. Writing a paper that's man friendly (or even not man unfriendly) will get you a bad or failing grade.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

If that’s the outcome, it can be addressed with school administration and might be a good way to start a conversation about what is appropriate to be taught in English class or not. But the actual failing grade issue would need to arise first. We have no way of knowing that the teacher doesn’t expect mixed discourse, and many persuasive writing prompts are designed to be controversial and approached from multiple angles.

[–]tenchineuro 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

We have no way of knowing that the teacher doesn’t expect mixed discourse

Many students have posted here of what happened to them when they refused to 'get with the program'. I'm afraid a preponderance of evidence (even if anecdotal) outweighs any purely theoretical argument.

[–]duhhhh 9 points10 points11 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

How effectively can you persuade an SJW?

[–]rabel111 11 points12 points13 points 6 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

“Toxic masculinity" is hate speech. Here's a couple of discussion points that might help you, if it's safe to speak about diverse views. Most feminists really get off femsplaining masculinity to men and boys, but respond aggressively to alternate views, so be careful.

In education, social sciences and the sciences, when we talk about specific population groups (e.g. race, sex, sexual preference) we use language that does not offend or is preferred by those groups. Even when there are small numbers of people who find particular labels offensive, their offense is considered empathetically, and our language adapted to not offend.

The nebulous term "toxic masculinity" has been imposed on men and boys despite many stating clearly and passionately that this term is offensive. None of the behaviours considered destructive are described by the term, and many good behaviours associated with masculinity are not specifically excluded. The proposition that the underlying meaning of the offensive term cures it of offense is disingenuous. This approach to language is not used to excuse the use of offensive terms when talking about other social groups. Why is it OK to use offensive terms when talking about men and masculinity. Why are men being treated differently.

Some people suggest that men should not be offended, or are exhibiting toxic masculinity by being offended. This proposition suggests that men have no right to be offended, or to have opinions about the language used in discussions about maleness nd masculinity. This is suggesting that men should be silenced rather than heard in discussions about maleness and masculinity, and that men's lived experience of masculinity is invalid or secondary to feminist ideological framing of masculinity. Ironically, this silencing demands men exhibit characteristics of toxic masculinity.

Some people point out the use of the term in modern social sciences. But the use of this term in social science is contentious, as many professionals and academics point out how use of this term is offensive and divisive, and predominately ideologically driven rather than evidence based.

Users of the term “toxic masculinity” fail to explain why such a different approach to discussions about men is reasonable. Continuing to use the term “toxic masculinity” knowing it causes offense, blaming and demeaning men when they challenge this approach, is provocative, alienating and lacks empathy.

[–]Lion_amongst_gods 9 points10 points11 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I wanna see the whole thing. Please post it in the comments.

[–]Idumbbbz[S] 7 points8 points9 points 6 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Here you go. The conversion to pdf kinda messed it up though

[–]duhhhh 6 points7 points8 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Is this the Always "like a girl" commercial?

[–]Idumbbbz[S] 9 points10 points11 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Yes

[–]duhhhh 15 points16 points17 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Ohhhh! Context for those interested-

Proctor and Gamble 2015 SuperBowl messaging for girls -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIxA3o84syY

Message I got: Girls are great the way they are. Boys, don't shame them. Girls, don't be ashamed.

Preview of Proctor and Gamble 2019 SuperBowl messaging for boys -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koPmuEyP3a0

Message I got: Some men are okay, but most won't do/say the right things unless we shame them to. Boys need to change now so they don't turn out to be horrible people like most men are today.

I've got two kids four years apart. I was supposed to be good with the negative messaging my son is getting at the same age my daughter got the positive messaging ... Nope! We cut 95% of the Proctor and Gamble products from our house after that.

You can find lots on the Gillette toxic masculinity responses from Proctor and Gamble executives doubling down on this messaging.

[–]Idumbbbz[S] 6 points7 points8 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Thanks for the input. Do you think the term "toxic masculinity" is sexist by itself? The way I see it, not really, because both sexes have a way of being toxic that's unique to them. But the way the expression is used, though...

[–]duhhhh 11 points12 points13 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Absolutely! But good luck arguing that point. The response is always along the lines of

  • "if you are arguing that, you are part of the problem" - because non-woke males are toxic

  • "if you are arguing that, you don't understand the term" - it's basically "internalized misogyny", but feminists didn't call this "internalized misandry" because misandry is a big part of feminism

    • "the patriarchy hurts men too" - because it's not girls often dumping/cheating on/abusing boys after they share vulnerable emotions that train men to bottle up emotions its all other men.

Both ads are negative stereotypes of boys/men. Yet...

She has been consistently outspoken about how corporate America must up its efforts to achieve gender equality, which includes dismantling stereotypes and bias.

https://qz.com/quartzy/1626698/pg-exec-behind-viral-gillette-ad-talks-toxic-masculinity/

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

You're a smart lad if you recognize this bull from your young age. I'm in my 30s and only beginning to realize the brainwashing...

[–]Idumbbbz[S] 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I guess It's only become more extreme now.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Yes it does appear it's become more extreme. Help your fellow lads out. I was a simp and in the end it ended up costing everything. My own wife cheated on me after I caught her cheating on me and then went to police to claim rape.

[–]Idumbbbz[S] 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

That's intense.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You have no idea about how intense it is. Lawyers are milking me a $100k+. She's not letting me see my kids in the mean time also. Go on over to /r/falserapeaccusations and see for yourself how many cases there are.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

It asks you to discuss toxic and positive masculinity. If you want to write about how you feel that this rhetoric doesn’t support positive masculinity and reinforces toxic masculinity, you could do that. And as long as the grading is based on the effective use on language it seems like a good way to start a conversation about how pitting one gender against the other in the media is a bad idea.

[–]Idumbbbz[S] 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

Because of home arrest, the grading system is you either pass or don't, based on the teacher's opinion, if you joined every online meeting, etc. However, if you passed the first two thirds of the year (which I did), they can't make you flunk.

Edit: Because of that, I realize that I'm complaining for nothing hahaha

[–]duhhhh 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

It that issue in the edit because you are Idumbbbz? I have similar issues. :)

[–]Idumbbbz[S] 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Well duhhhh, It's kind of obvious

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points-1 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

quebec is full of libtards

[–]Idumbbbz[S] 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Depends where you are

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