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Male student takes stand against ‘toxic masculinity’ narrative | The College Fix

Dave1962

May 7, 2019
338 upvotes
/r/MensRights
https://www.thecollegefix.com/male-student-takes-stand-against-toxic-masculinity-narrative/
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Title Male student takes stand against ‘toxic masculinity’ narrative | The College Fix
Author

Dave1962

Upvotes 338
Comments 32
Date May 7, 2019 3:35 PM UTC
(7 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/bls56q/male_student_takes_stand_against_toxic/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/male-student-takes-stand-against-toxic-masculinity.878245
https://theredarchive.com/post/878245
Red Pill terms in post
toxic masculinity
Top posts by Dave1962

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The 'Equality' blues: Feminists cry foul when boys' netball team wins girls' tournament. Feminists hate it when their own rules come back to bite them in the ass. They don't want equality, they want to be treated as if they're superior. It's always been about attaining power and privilege.

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Comments

[–]XavierMalory 68 points69 points70 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Excellent read. A young man who is seeing through the bullshit and calling out on it.

[–]Mr_Shad0w 35 points36 points37 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Good for him - keep on pushing back against the poisonous feminist narrative.

[–][deleted] 30 points31 points32 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Some people are more afraid to not speak, than to speak. Those people are true heroes.

[–]Dave1962[S] 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Agreed.

[–]Florient 26 points27 points28 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

It's presented as fact, but it's not. Feminists just invent these theories and buzzterms, and then expect conversations to just happen as if they are inherently true. That's not how it works.

[–][deleted] 15 points16 points17 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Patriarchy theory is just a conspiracy theory and it's time those that push it are called out for being the raving lunatics they are.

[–]JackReaper333 15 points16 points17 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Saying things like this in college seems like an excellent way to get multiple false rape allegations levied against you. Stay smart, bud.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I bet women on his campus hate him for being a misogynist.

[–]__pulsar 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Good for him. Hopefully he will inspire others to speak out.

[–]girraween 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

He put it into words that now I can use in real life. He’s a well spoken guy. I want to read his column now.

[–]Dave1962[S] 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

He's one of the brave few who are willing to speak out in defense of the assault against his sex/gender.

He just might find himself the victim on numerous fake rape accusations.

[–]mervmonster 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

He has a great point but really didn’t need to bring politics into it. You can want equality and be a democrat.

[–]Dave1962[S] -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Males are under attack on many college campuses, just for being male.

Many militant feminists don't want equality, they want men absent.

[–]mervmonster 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I get that. I just don’t understand how it relates to politics. I am a college student and there are plenty of republicans and democrats here. I know of republican and democrat feminists as well as both republican and democrat mras. When someone says “the left” or “the left wants” in a non political argument it immediately degrades their credibility. They are generalizing a huge amount. I just want affordable healthcare and equality so I’m a left mra.

[–]Dave1962[S] -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Just be careful not to get expelled because you were wrongfully accused of something and then the school ignores due process.

IMO, virtually everyone agrees that US healthcare system is broken in multiple ways, but I don't think trying to make it "free" will create any viable long term solutions.

[–]still_unresolved 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

There should be all male students like him

[+][deleted] -12 points-11 points-10 points 7 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

Femininity and masculinity are social constructions. They are ways of being that are influenced by society and imposed on an individual since birth. Social constructions are normal and expected in human society, but become damaging to ALL individuals when blown out of proportion. Hypermasculinity, or toxic masculinity, is when masculinity becomes "out of control". It is an identity that strives to be everything femininity is NOT. In this way, men affected by toxic masculinity struggle to see women as their true equals, objectify them, exploit them, assert power over them, and sexually abuse/rape them. The reason men affected by toxic masculinity cannot truly see women as equals is because it is constantly reinforced that women are "lesser than" and subordinate to them. How can anyone ever truly value anyone or anything if it constantly reinforced that some type of person is weaker, lesser than, or beneath you? It isn't possible.

Men who do not question the social constructions imposed on them are heavily prone to being affected by toxic masculinity. An individual affected by toxic masculinity may be more prone to a disregulation of emotion (which leads to aggression, violence, depression, and suicide), less apt to be introspective, less apt to have compassion and empathy for others, and may use other "subordinate" identities, such as women, to achieve economic/sexual success.

​

I know this is going to get dislikes but I don't care. I just need this stuff to be known. Please just take a second to think about where women come from. Feminists don't hate men and are not "out to get" them. Feminists desperately want both men and women to be on the same page, to see each other as real people. Women are not upset at men because they truly HATE them, it's because they are literally afraid of them. We just want peace and understanding.

[–]EricAllonde 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Feminists don't hate men and are not "out to get" them.

Actions speak louder than words.

Feminists have done too much to harm men to be just handwaved away by this sort of comment. Your hate cult thoroughly deserves its reputation.

[–][deleted] -5 points-4 points-3 points 7 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

No. Radical feminists have tarnished the true name of femininity do not represent the goals of feminists. The true goal of feminism is equality, which means bringing both women AND men up. We are upset because you constantly show that YOU hate US. Women are angry because they've been so mistreated by men all this time. And the reason women get mistreated by men is because men are stifled by toxic masculinity. The stifling of men causes the stifling of women. We are all suffering. Please just take a second to think about this.

​

I don't think men deserve to be called names, I don't think they deserve to be hated on. Everyone deserves to be loved. It isn't fair that the suicide rate is so high for men. But ultimately it isn't women's fault. Women are reacting to the harmful actions of men, and justifiably so. And men are in upset because they are trapped by the box that toxic masculinity puts them in.

[–]EricAllonde 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Radical feminists have tarnished the true name of femininity do not represent the goals of feminists.

So you're going with the tired old claim that there is a huge, invisible & silent majority of "good feminists" who don't hate men and disapprove of all the stuff that feminism is doing to harm men: stripping men of their legal rights, creating employment and other discrimination against men, blocking alimony reform and child custody reform, etc?

We've heard all that nonsense before.

Silent, invisible feminists don't matter. I don't care about them at all. The only thing that matters is the harm that feminism is doing in the world, and I see zero feminists opposing that.

How many feminists spoke up to oppose the 2011 "Dear Colleague" letter and the creation of anti-male kangaroo courts that followed? None.

How many feminists stood up and said that Brett Kavanaugh, like all accused men, is entitled to the presumption of innocence and to be judged objectively based on the evidence? None.

I could go on, but the answer is always the same: zero "good" feminists actively oppose the evil that feminism does, so it doesn't matter how many supposed good feminists there are. All feminists are complicit in enabling feminism to do evil by giving the ideology political support.

Women are reacting to the harmful actions of men, and justifiably so.

Some people do bad things. It doesn't justify applying collective guilt to everyone.

If a woman cheats on her husband, leaves & takes the kids, lies about being abused to get an advantage in the divorce, strips him of all his assets and leaves him in poverty, is he justified in hating all women and going on a mass shooting spree to kill as many women as possible? No, of course not. One woman wronged him and most of the women he would target would be innocent.

In the same way, it's unjustified for feminists to take a bad experience at the hands of one man and use that as an excuse to band together, acquire the political power that our gynocentric society hands them too willingly, and use that power to attack and harm all men.

And men are in upset because they are trapped by the box that toxic masculinity puts them in.

Fuck off with that.

Honestly, just fuck right off with that condescending, patronising, smug & self-satisfied man-hating feminist bullshit.

Feminists are the biggest hypocrites. You can say, "No man can understand what it's like to be a woman" and "No uterus, no opinion" in the same breath as, "You men are doing manhood all wrong. We feminists will show you how to be men the right way". Fuck right off and keep fucking off until you're over the horizon.

Only feminists crap on about toxic masculinity, because it lets you: feel superior to me, demonise men, dismiss men's opinions or concerns and falsely claim victimhood to demand political power, all at once. Fuck off with that.

Men just want fair treatment: to be given the legal rights that women have but we lack, to be treated equally before the law, to be treated fairly when it comes to alimony & child custody, etc. All those things are infinitely more than made-up feminist bullshit about how men are wrong and toxic. Again, and I can't say this firmly enough: fuck off with that.

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points-1 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

What if I told you I agree with you? That all people deserve to be treated as innocent until proven guilty, regardless of gender? That men and women deserve the same rights when it comes to alimony? That's the WHOLE POINT of feminism that you are purposely misunderstanding.

You don't hate feminists. You hate the reaction that women have to being treated like meaningless objects, every day of their lives, as a result of your ignorance, self awareness, and inability to question the social constructions in place. You're right, none of that stuff you said IS fair to you! But it's also not fair that I have to put up with creepy men on the bus every day to work, that I can't walk alone at night in fear of getting raped or murdered, that I have to always be in fear of being in some sort of danger or abuse. Just in general that I am seen as an object, not by "one man" as you've said, but because of EVERY DAY INTERACTIONS I experience with MANY men constantly. And I am NOT the only one, every woman has experienced some kind of unfair treatment in their lives simply due to the fact that they are women. You purposely deny your male privilege and then turn around and demonize women for being upset for not having the privilege that you have and it is ignorant beyond words. And it's funny that anytime a woman tries to stick up for herself, share her perfectly understandable concerns about her living conditions in society, she is told she is being "patronizing" and domineering, because women are constantly told to sit down and shut the fuck up. I am literally just telling you my perspective and you are telling me I am being patronizing? How is the way I'm speaking any different from you, other than the fact that I'm not cursing at you and telling you to fuck off?

Telling me to "fuck off" doesn't bridge any gaps or lead to any kind of understanding, you just want to fight and be mad and not help the conditions in any sort of productive way. If you keep fighting everyone will keep fighting you back and you won't get anywhere or make any real progress.

[–]sric2838 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Hypermasculinity, or toxic masculinity, is when masculinity becomes "out of control". It is an identity that strives to be everything femininity is NOT.

Well since femininity can be everything, hypermasculinity can't exist.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 7 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

That's not what I said. Think of it like this. Let's say femininity (or more accurately, hyperfemininity) is defined as being nurturing, having compassion and empathy, being sensitive, being submissive, and being soft and caring in general. Hypermasculinity seeks to actively AVOID being these things in fear of being perceived as feminine. In order to prove it is not feminine, hypermasculinity counters these traits with aggression, violence, objectivity, exploitation, lack of empathy and introspection, dominance over and overpowering others, etc etc etc.

In reality, though, these traits are HUMAN traits, not feminine. For instance, every person cries when they are a child. Girls are encouraged to keep crying, and boys are encouraged to stop. And that's why girls are more apt to be more emotionally expressive, and why boys are more apt to be more emotionally repressive. It's all in how we are taught and reinforced. And it causes suffering in both women AND men.

[–]gloryhole87 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

As a parallel, I could say Femininity also includes nagging, whining, PMSing and expecting my spouse to tolerate, womansplaining and baby shaking. See how it feels?

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Yeah, because women whining and PMS-ing equates to the aggression, violence, abuse, sexual assault, and murder women are constantly subjected to by so many men, right?

[–]gloryhole87 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You don’t get my point. I’m saying these are stereotypes which it’s ridiculous to equate to a gender as a whole. Lots of men are cranky and lots of women are violent

[–]goodfoobar 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Femininity and masculinity are social constructions.

Right from the first line you stated something that is simply false. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you agree that there are significant physical differences. Do you think that those physical differences extend to hormonal differences? Do you think those hormonal differences extend to behavioural differences? If you can follow this then there are inherent differences that have nothing to do with social influences.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Sex =/= Gender.

Sex makes up physical and hormonal differences. Gender is a mental identity, and is constantly being redefined socially. What is masculine today is different than what masculine was years ago, and is different among countries and cultures, and will be different in many years.

Yes, there are some hormonal differences that can account for behavior. But behavior is encouraged or discouraged by society. If I was constantly told to not like girly things, to not wear girl clothes, to not play with girl toys, and no other girl around me played with girl toys and ALSO discouraged girl things, don't you think that maybe I would grow a dislike towards girl things, or at least a disinterest? Don't you think that if it was CONSTANTLY reinforced from everyone and everything around me, parents and friends and strangers and media, that it's highly likely I wouldn't develop an interest in feminine things?

Let's say that testosterone makes males more prone to aggression. If a boy is never taught to express aggression, if he is taught to deal with aggression and other emotions through introspection, counseling, and honestly with friends, then the aggression will never manifest. If it is not reinforced, then it will not develop. This parallels to a well known phenomenon in psychology called the Diathesis Stress Model. This model states that an individual will not exhibit a disorder or behavior unless the individual has both a predisposition AND an environmental stressor that provokes the exhibition of the disorder combined. It's the same here, where even if an individual is predisposed to aggression, the aggression will never be exhibited if it is never socially/environmentally encouraged to be exhibited.

MOST of our behavior is constructed socially and not biologically. Social constructions are so pervasive that it is very easy to believe they are biological.

[–]goodfoobar 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Nature (Sex) vs Nurture (Gender)

Your giving way more credit to the nurture side of things then it deserves. Boys showing an interest in things and girls showing interest in faces has been shown to be inherent even in new born infants. I've heard it said that boys eyes are better at detecting movement and girls eyes are better at seeing colour variation. Probably the reason female colour blindness is so extremely rare compared to male colour blindness.

If anything natural boy behaviour is being repressed while natural girl behaviour is being encouraged. Phrases like "no means no" or "don't be that guy" where NO and DON'T are directed specifically at boys are not encouraging. Phrases like "you go girl" and "girl power" encourage girls. Schools limit physical activity. For boys to be able to sit and concentrate long enough to learn anything they require sufficient activity to get their hormones in balance. Girls need physical activity as well but not as much. Girls are doing better at school then boys are at all levels from elementary to PhD. If natural boy behaviour was not being suppressed boys would not be struggling as much as they are in education.

The assumption that testosterone means aggression is a common one. While boys may be more likely to do physical rough housing that does not necessarily mean aggression. I'm sure that you can find many girls that will tell you how aggressive they can be to each other using nothing more then words.

Most of our behaviour is physically inherent and it takes a great deal to change it. The fact so many boys are failing and so many girls are excelling suggests that boys nature is being stressed much more then girls nature.

[–]Dave1962[S] 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

We just want peace and understanding.

I agree with a lot of what you've posted here, and I believe you sincerely believe what I've copy/pasted above, but other feminists are just as sincere in their hatred of men (I can post more examples if necessary):

https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/bmy67z/i_dont_even_know_what_to_say_about_this/

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

The feminists that truly hate men are not true feminists. Feminism is:

"the advocacy of women's rights on the basis of the equality of the sexes" (dictionary)

"the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes" (wikipedia)

"organized activity on behalf of women's rights and interests." (wikipedia)

And here is this too.

​

Feminists are not just women, and they are not just hateful. That book that you linked is horrifying and it in no way should be allowed. Let's set aside the term feminism for a second, since it has such a negative connotation on the internet. Me and so many other people (not just women) advocate desperately for a better life for women. It is a fact that women are an oppressed group because they are a targeted group that the dominant group (male) does not proactively try to lend privilege to. That's what oppression is. I can still be happy and live a fulfilling life and I am capable and strong but I am still a part of an oppressed group. And just because I personally am blessed to have my own privileges that I have, doesn't mean other women share the same.

My angle is that dismantling social constructions such as toxic masculinity will free EVERYONE, not just women. So many of the men here do not understand that what people who want to dismantle toxic masculinity want, is what you guys want too, because toxic masculinity perpetuates not only women's oppression, but it perpetuates the problems you discuss! As I've stated before, social constructions are not inherently bad things, and concepts like masculinity and femininity can be good. It's when masculinity becomes fragile that it becomes toxic and harms everyone. Fragile masculinity is the notion that a man's measure of "manliness" is based off of the fact that they are NOT women. Those affected by fragile masculinity will do everything in their power to not be seen as feminine, such as going out of their way to never wear anything that might be perceived as feminine, or not saying certain things that might be seen as feminine, or purposely not taking up interests because they think it is "for women". This push away from all things feminine in turn suppresses women and makes them out to be something that is "lesser than". Toxic masculinity is the notion that men cannot express their altruistic selves as a result of being fragile in their masculinity. Consequently, men often grow up thinking they must present some sort of hypermasculine face to the world in order to prove they are not women. This can range from anywhere from not liking feminine interests, to never learning how to cope with and express emotion.

I watched a documentary recently called The Mask You Live In and one of the people in it said that since boys are children they are taught that being a boy means 3 things: physical strength, economic success by any means, and power over women (usually by sexual power).

It is NOT bad to be physically strong. It is NOT bad to be economically successful! What is bad, however, is that masculinity today is predicated upon the LOSING of women. Women are constantly kept beneath men in ways that are obvious AND hidden. Even using language like, "I'm not a little bitch" perpetuates the idea that women are weaker, less than men in every way. And have you ever noticed that the worst insults for men are in regard to women and gay men (who do not conform to toxic masculinity)? Pussy, bitch, cunt, gay, fag, etc. Even WOMAN is an insult. I once had an ex boyfriend who told me he liked some kind of latte from Starbucks because "he's a woman". Really? Masculinity is so fragile in so many men that they cannot even enjoy their coffee without being in fear that their masculinity is somehow being stripped from them to some degree.

​

I could say A LOT more. But I just wanted to get the point across that dismantling toxic masculinity will free not only women, but men too! Because in a world where toxic masculinity does not exist, men can be free to be who they are without the fear of having anything "stripped" from them. Men can learn that traits that are wrongly accused of being "feminine", such as being sensitive, empathetic, and emotionally expressive, are not just feminine but are HUMAN and that they can strengthen these traits, therefore leading in better mental health and better relationships for everyone. There will be less suicides among men (studies show that the age that emotional language is discouraged for boys, which is age 14, is when suicide rates increase in boys by five times). Men will be able to have more connections and meaningful friendships as a result of being more open and in tune with their emotions. There would no doubt be less conflict among everyone. There would be MUCH less sexual assault, rapes, and violence. The world would just be a better place for everyone.

So many things are imposed on children when they are young, and they are hard to unlearn when they are older. Encouragement of emotional expression and altruism needs to start very early and needs to be constantly reinforced in a child's environment. Because like I mentioned in a post earlier, if an individual has only known one way of living their whole lives, how could they learn to be anything else? If an individual is taught to always be loving, accepting of who others are, and accepting of themselves wholly, and additionally everyone AROUND them is taught the same thing, don't you think it would be a small chance that that individual would not turn out to value those ways of thinking? Because that's what's happening right now. So many boys are being reinforced through family and society that there is a strict box, a strict definition, to be a boy, and so it is hard for them to develop in any other way. The things that are encouraged for girls are often discouraged for boys and that leads to an immense amount of misunderstanding and conflict that could have been avoided if only...

​

Right now so many people try to tackle symptoms of the disease and not the disease itself. If the root cause of so many issues is toxic masculinity (or at least one of the biggest causes), then trying to only focus on symptoms like rape (and related topics like the fear of reporting assault and false rape accusations) will never "cure" rape and its related topics. You cannot fix problems like these without finding the root cause and fixing that first.

​

But it's never too late. Right now, we can all do better. We can all be more open minded, put ourselves in others shoes, learn to understand why people are the way that they are. Develop and practice empathy (because truly it is largely a skill, not a born trait). The world will start to become a better place.

​

Edit: I want to emphasize that dismantling toxic masculinity does not demonize masculine characteristics, nor does it make men become "feminine". It simply allows for the freedom of men to be who they want to be, whether that be mostly only masculine, mostly feminine, both, or whatever. I am not saying "All men must be sensitive!" or anything like that because that would be unrealistic and not all women are sensitive either. I am just saying, this would allow for men to be who they are without pressure to emphasize certain traits or suppress certain traits.

​

Edit #2: Notice I am not saying that men do not face injustice, do not face problems daily, do not have their own justified fears. I am saying that the approach of dismantling toxic masculinity may be a good start to reducing negative expectations of men and women in society today, which would then open doors to solve problems for women AND men alike.

[–]still_unresolved -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

women arent equals and men are "greater"

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