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Anon is confused

YoYoTittiesBitch · 2018-07-05T16:03:56+00:00

Anon is confused16,689 points•1,059 comments•submitted 3 years...

YoYoTittiesBitch

July 5, 2018

245 upvotes

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Post Information

Title	Anon is confused
Author	YoYoTittiesBitch
Upvotes	245
Comments	44
Date	July 5, 2018 4:03 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/8wbmh8/anon_is_confused/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/anon-is-confused.898461 https://theredarchive.com/post/898461

Comments

[–][deleted] 23 points24 points25 points 8 years ago* (43 children) | Copy Link

[–]StarHarvest 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (39 children) | Copy Link

[+]mymarkis6661 points 8 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

I think a lot of people forget there are jobs unrelated to any particular degree that only accept graduates. A degree does still open doors.

[–]StarHarvest 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (29 children) | Copy Link

[–]StarHarvest 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (28 children) | Copy Link

your experience isn't remotely close to the norm

Most people are broke in general, with or without a college degree; so that's kind of a moot point.

did you get scholarships or family money or go to a community college or what

Scholarships and govt loans. Tuition was about 2500 CAD a semester. I worked at a sawmill in the summer 12 hour days and paid my living expenses for the year. Graduated with very manageable debt.

you'd be better off just getting a tradeskill job and putting all that money in an S&P500 ETF.

You can't really assert that without knowing how much I make. Plus trades aren't some magical industry where you just make bank out of the gate. You have to be an apprentice, work your way up, and hope your specialization is in high demand. If I invested my money in a low-risk account and worked as an electrician's apprentice for 3 years instead of going to school it would take me like 8 years and many more hours to make as much as I do now. My degree cost me about 25 grand (not including living), and if it sat in a CD or investment account I would have barely made 3 grand in 3 years. I make more than 5 grand annually over many people my age in trades. Not exactly a bad investment IMO.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (27 children) | Copy Link

Most people are broke in general, with or without a college degree; so that's kind of a moot point.

americans owe over a trillion dollars in student debt. most BAs will never pay it off. it's not at all moot.

Tuition was about 2500 CAD a semester.

then 4 years for you = 20k CAD before scholarships. in the US, it's massively exploded to high 5, low 6 figures USD just for tuition. this is because the federal gov now backs student loans, and the massive influx of available cash means prices can continue going up. and just like with the housing crisis where the gov backed subprime mortgages, they're now backing subprime degree programs like BAs. add in shit like housing and cost of living (especially in anon's pic, he's in NYC, one of the most expensive cities in the world) and that's a huge amount of money.

You can't really assert that without knowing how much I make.

i don't have to know how much YOU make. just have to know how much the average BA makes. look up the 20 year ROI for degree programs on payscale.com. most BAs are low or even negative ROI over 20 years. your individual experiences do NOT disprove the huge amount data showing BAs are trash degrees and a colossal waste of money. many companies nowadays (including ours) instantly bin resumes from BAs because they're demonstrably poor decision makers. the data is not even fucking close.

[–]StarHarvest 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (26 children) | Copy Link

americans owe over a trillion dollars in student debt.

The same is true with credit card debt. It's not just BA students that make bad financial decisions. Just like a credit card, a BA is useful in the hands of the right person, but most people use it improperly.

this is because the federal gov now backs student loan

My university was public too and my tuition was low, loan interest rates were 0, and I never paid more than $150 for a textbook.

i don't have to know how much YOU make.

You literally said "YOU'D be better off just getting a tradeskill job" so you kind of do need to know how much I make to make that assertion.

most BAs are low or even negative ROI over 20 years

ROI for education is insanely difficult to measure so I'd take any info that claims specificity with a grain of salt. We had an entire unit on this in econ where our prof said that ROI metrics for education often fail to account for things like promotions, networking opportunities leading to work, etc. And over-inflate the role of STEM degrees in acquiring post-secondary work like oil-rig work (which doesn't always require a degree).

many companies nowadays (including ours) instantly bin resumes from BAs

Well it's a good thing my firm didn't do that, because I've made them insane amounts of money these past few years. I can only imagine how much your company has lost with such short-sighted views. Sheer laziness. If you don't take the time to interview fully qualified individuals because of some personal vendetta you have against BAs, your business is much more likely to fail and hire less talented people.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (25 children) | Copy Link

[–]StarHarvest 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (24 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (23 children) | Copy Link

[–]StarHarvest -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (22 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted]1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]StarHarvest1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

the entire article you present is bullshit.

Yet you can't summon the brain power to refute a single point. Very telling.

payscale.com

Okay, since you lack the ability to link evidence, I'll attempt to prove your flimsy point for you. Even the lowest rank on this list shows a 500k 20 year ROI on a 100k degree. Even if I'm allowing ROI for education to be a valid measurement (it's not) that's still not a negative investment. That's also not even a bad investment considering the immeasurable benefits of education overall. Furthermore, there are plenty of universities in the STEM fields with negative ROIs as well. But I guess that doesn't prove your flawed logic, so we can ignore it.

after all, you're just a loser BA.

Your vocabulary reminds me of the children I interact with in focus groups. Except even they're smart enough to see the benefit of education.

[–][deleted]1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]StarHarvest1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]StarHarvest1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

you're not accounting for the fact that 95% of the kids who get a poli sci degree get NO job requiring a poli sci degree

I'm truly enjoying these stats you're pulling out of your ass with no source. Keep em coming :)

For those of us that do understand stats 37% of job postings in 2016 required college or postsecondary and 34% of Americans hold bachelors degrees. Many arts professions actually have higher field match rates than STEM fields. That's right, if you can believe it, not all astrophysics majors get a job in their field! Even if you look at the one source you've "listed", we can see that the median income for a BA is virtually identical to a BS. I could go on for hours, but it's clear you're outclass here and clinging to the intellectual high-ground with no leg to stand on. Maybe learn to interpret data properly, learn to source your arguments, and learn to structure your opinions in a cohesive way. Maybe even get a BA! (Although I doubt you'd be accepted)

[–][deleted]1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

you're still not understanding and the stats don't remotely say what you are presenting them as.

let's say across some random distribution of entry level STEM jobs, they get paid 40k, 50k, 60k, 70k, 80k. this averages 60k. across a random distribution of entry level BA jobs, let's say they have the same distribution and averages. the problem is that STEM has a near 100% employment rate, while BAs only have a 5% employment rate. very few of those BAs will actually get a job that requires any degree. so at the JOB level, the distribution for BAs = 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 60k, so the statistical expected value for a BA is only 3k. the other 19 these dumbasses get jobs as receptionists, "sandwich artisans", and baristas. that's how ROI works dumbass. you don't get to not count the HUGE number of total failures.

[–]StarHarvest1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]StarHarvest1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

you're confusing the stats. unemployment is rate of people not having any full time job some period (usually 6 or 9 months) after graduation. and your stats are just wrong. BA's consistently peg their median at $20k less and have 2-3x the unemployment rate. here's another study from georgetown reporting drastically higher unemployment rates for BAs.

unemployment and employment rates are not inverses. they're entirely different stats with entirely different definitions. employment rates are the % of grads acquiring a full time job that requires that degree within 6 or 9 months of graduation, depending on the study. this metric came up when ATL started ~2010 pushing law schools to be ranked based on the percentage of students who graduate from their program and get a job that requires that degree. at the time, every law school was under 50% employment rate, and that's only risen a bit for some schools. currently, only 66% of law students graduating get real law jobs.

for example, if you get a full time receptionist job after you get a BA, you are counted as employed for the unemployment rate, but you are not counted as employed for the employment rate. some states started pushing this and their public universities must disclose either employment or unemployment rates to incoming students. this is why unemployment for BAs is typically 6-10%, but the employment rate is <5%, while the unemployment for STEM/business/IT/nursing is typically 3% or less while the employment rate is near 100%.

[–]StarHarvest1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]StarHarvest1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]StarHarvest2 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]StarHarvest1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]StarHarvest1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]StarHarvest1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Ahielia 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]StarHarvest -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]StarHarvest 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]StarHarvest 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]WiseMonkeyGoodMonkey 7 points8 points9 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]buffyangel808 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Hibear 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]romulusnr 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link