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The Atlantic: "The Many Possible Meanings of the ‘Masculinity Crisis’"

JestyerAverageJoe

June 27, 2018
15 upvotes
/r/MensRights
https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2018/06/why-american-men-are-in-crisis/563807/
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Title The Atlantic: "The Many Possible Meanings of the ‘Masculinity Crisis’"
Author

JestyerAverageJoe

Upvotes 15
Comments 20
Date June 27, 2018 2:48 PM UTC
(8 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/8ua7jl/the_atlantic_the_many_possible_meanings_of_the/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/the-atlantic-the-many-possible-meanings-of-the.898883
https://theredarchive.com/post/898883
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Comments

[–]shit-zen-giggles 10 points11 points12 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Kimmel et al, no surprise this is so stupid...

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

express an interest in buying an SUV? I would have said a F150.

[–]Razorbladekandyfan 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

The thing that is in crisis is Gynocentrism. Men don't want to be disposable any more. That's why these people are freaking out.

[+][deleted] -3 points-2 points-1 points 8 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

I think it's that women want to be disposable and men don't. Women want to do the things men have been doing that have made them disposable, and men want to have access to these privileges (if you can call them that) that women have had access to.

Then again, there's also a class element. You don't see rich white guys lining up to go to war or to work in the coal fields of WV.

[–]Razorbladekandyfan 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

Women by and large don't want to have the responsabilities that made men disposable.

[+][deleted] -3 points-2 points-1 points 8 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

Clearly explains why there's such a push to get women into the military. Or why my union is attempting to get women in!

[–]girlwriteswhat 10 points11 points12 points 8 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

The military is a prestigious career path. There are women who want that. There's a push to give them those opportunities.

Now ask how those same people feel about including women in Selective Service Registration. Shit, ask how those *women* who want in the military so bad feel about signing up for mandatory military service in wartime.

I think you'll get a lot of people, both men and women, who want women to be *allowed* to do what men are allowed to do, but don't want women to be *forced* to do what men are forced to do.

[–]JestyerAverageJoe[S] 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

a lot of people ... want women to be allowed to do what men are allowed to do, but don't want women to be forced to do what men are forced to do

This. Entitlement to privileges without assuming the responsibility of men, or even recognizing, much less appreciating, men's responsibility.

[+][deleted] -5 points-4 points-3 points 8 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

The draft won't be called into effect. Seriously, that's not the most important thing as of now.

[–]girlwriteswhat 7 points8 points9 points 8 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Really. You know this. You got out your crystal ball and have determined there will never be another draft. Okay.

You do realize that there are quite a few developed nations with mandatory military service. I was speaking with a couple guys from South Korea yesterday. Men must serve ~2 years in the military before they hit a certain age, and women don't have that obligation.

Used to be that the men could use their service as partial credit to get into university. That option was there to help catch them up to their female peers who were given a two year head start. A couple years ago, the government decided this gave men an "unfair advantage" over women in education, and stopped allowing it.

Anyway, clearly the government of the US believes a draft might one day be necessary. Selective Service Registration costs tax dollars to manage, and they're willing to spend it despite having a large voluntary military.

[+][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Most feminists I know support ending the draft. In fact, in Sweden, most feminists fought to end it.

[–]girlwriteswhat 10 points11 points12 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

And yet the women's march on Washington DC was all about Roe v Wade, a decision with so much subsequent precedent that it has approximately zero chance of ever being revoked.

And they marched on that AFTER Trump said he would leave Roe v Wade (and the gay marriage decision) alone.

Do you know what it would take to kill legal abortion in the US? It would take SCOTUS to overturn not just Roe v Wade, but 40+ years of legal precedents based on it, something that even the most conservative judges on the bench have consistently refused to vote to do in the past. Or it would take a constitutional amendment, which means a mandatory supermajority of states to vote for it.

Could we get 500,000 women out to march for gender neutral conscription? How about 50,000? 5000?

Could we get Ashley Judd and Michael Moore and Madonna to get on a stage in front of an audience that size and do slam poetry about adding women to Selective Service, or getting rid of it altogether?

You think we could get Morgan Freeman and Patrick Stewart and Beyonce and Jane Lynch and Oprah and Emma Watson and Angelina Jolie and Patricia Arquette and Lena Dunham to do a collab video supporting the National Coalition for Men's Supreme Court challenge of male-only Selective Service?

Some of these people took time out of their busy days to do a PSA to ban the word "bossy" because they feel it "squashes" girls. So don't tell me they're too busy.

I mean, there's fighting and there's fighting, right? Patricia Arquette devoted an awards speech to equal pay for women. Jennifer Lawrence went public with her complaints about being underpaid compared to her two male costars (Christian Bale and Bradley Cooper), despite the fact that she was paid MORE than either of them on a per-day-on-set basis. Oprah stood at a podium and declared "time's up" for men who abuse their power to sexually victimize women.

I don't see any of them throwing their significant social clout behind a gender neutral draft, or ending the draft in the US.

That the NOW is pro-gender neutral draft in its charter has NOTHING to do with ANYTHING. How much money are the spending on it? How many spokespeople are they putting on TV news and current events programs to discuss it? How diligently are they campaigning for it?

What if I'm personally in favor of a flat tax system with a $40,000/year tax-free base income for a family of four? I've made my position public. It's in my personal charter. Am I organizing marches on Washington to demand it? Am I sending delegates to lobby on Capitol Hill to push for it? Am I demanding a sit-down with the POTUS to explain to him how much I want it? How much of my resources am I putting behind my tax plan?

500,000 people marched on Washington to protest something that only existed in their imaginations--the 0.0000001% possibility of Roe v Wade being overturned. I have a greater chance of being struck by lightning in the next 5 minutes.

And male only Selective Service registration continues.

Has the NOW written any amicus briefs to support NCFM's constitutional challenge, which has passed several milestones and motions for dismissal? Have they contributed any money to the suit? No? Yeah, didn't think so.

[+][deleted] -6 points-5 points-4 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

The NCFM IS known for being rape apologists, so any attempt to give them any credit is political suicide.

Some of these people took time out of their busy days to do a PSA to ban the word "bossy" because they feel it "squashes" girls. So don't tell me they're too busy.

Because this devalues women's contributions in the workplace. Selective service will not be called upon in the near future.

Moreover, most public feminists are rich people that could not care less about it and won't be drafted even if

on a per-day-on-set basis.

Irrelevant. She still produces actual value.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2016/12/29/why-jennifer-lawrences-20m-and-chris-pratts-12m-passengers-payday-was-a-trap/#649154ff240b

This was just several months after the Sony hacks exposed gender-based pay disparities, specifically for the ensemble American Hustle where supporting player Lawrence (who was a key marketing draw) was paid less than supporting character (and not a major draw) Jeremy Renner.

Here's a tip: no one will care about your whining about an issue that's not even important if you constantly spend all your time delegitimizing women's issues. You sound exactly like capitalist conservatives.

[–]Razorbladekandyfan 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Sweden has reinstated conscription. Good thing its gender neutral.

[–]pobretano 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

As far as I remember, NOW (the one behind anti-father counter-legislative measures) is pro-gender-neutral Draft...

[–]tenchineuro 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I think it's that women want to be disposable and men don't.

Say what?

[–]thrway_1000 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

What utter bullshit. More pushing feminist propaganda.

Archive -- https://archive.is/6PNRy

[–]tenchineuro 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

But in a discussion about this “crisis” on Tuesday at the Aspen Ideas Festival, which is co-hosted by the Aspen Institute and The Atlantic, panelists had varying notions of what that crisis entails, if it exists at all. For Michael Kimmel, an author and professor at SUNY Stony Brook, where he founded the Center for the Study of Men and Masculinities, the crisis involves one type of man—heterosexual, white ones—who feel like their power “is slipping.” Tristan Bridges, an assistant professor of sociology at the University of California, Santa Barbara, agreed with Kimmel, adding that the crisis affects men who are now contending with “unchallenged entitlement.” For the writer Thomas Page McBee, the crisis involves men who are hurting in the face of society’s stereotyped expectations that they should be more inhumane than humane, more violent than empathic. For Joseph Derrick Nelson, a senior research fellow with the Center for the Study of Boys’ and Girls’ Lives, the crisis is hitting black boys who need support and the kind of unconditional love necessary to help them break free of certain damaging norms.

This is disgusting, men are in crisis because the massive coercive power of the state is being wielded against them.

[–]ZimbaZumba 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

The article and the panel are talking in an echo chamber. They are disconnected from reality and need to spend time outside their elite clique. History will look at them as appalling.

[–]Jokengonzo 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The crisis is society is trying to turn us into fucking weak girlymen. The type Women wouldn’t fuck with a ten foot pole. They constantly attack men for being men than go and praise Women as if they never have done wrong and if they did it was because a man

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