"How should we talk to boys about respecting women?" - ABC News Australia.

EsraYmssik · 2016-08-27T11:16:55+00:00

We live in a society that celebrates a narrow definition of masculinity, yet we know few men actually fit into it.

Yes but the definition is that men are 'evil'; that they are misogynists, rapists, that they oppress women. They are expressions of toxic masculinity, and that there is no other kind of masculinity, except:

And we need new heroes.

Young men like the YouTubers I saw the other night, who are not creepy and predatory online but just silly and kind — two blokes who are confident enough in their masculinity to paint on cat's whiskers, dance in sparkly gear and entertain roomfuls of young girls and old mothers with their sweet, dorky divineness.

...when they can be feminine.

Men can be good when they are women.

zulu127 · 2016-08-27T11:21:19+00:00

I am always amazed at how authors of this sort of article assume that girls are respectful of boys and treat them so well. They never address some of the things that girls say and do that are demeaning to boys. Women are wonderful effect, I suppose.

splodgenessabounds · 2016-08-27T11:43:53+00:00

I admit I scanned rather than read the article, but a couple of things:

1) boys do not (in my experience) unilaterally decide one day that they

have a right to objectify and ridicule, belittle and degrade young women

Yes, playground backslapping and goading and peer-group pressure. But when it comes down to one-on-one, most boys will turn themselves inside out in their endeavour to get closer to a girl.

2) >We need men to talk to their sons about the mob-shaming and exploitation of women

Apart from some redneck, extreme macho horseshit sub-culture, where does that even happen? I suspect most fathers these days are well aware that they need to help their sons navigate the minefield of relationships with girls. Equally, isn't it about time parents (not just fathers or mothers) started giving their daughters some clues about being a young woman worthy of that sort of respect they want their sons to show?

3) This concluding statement sums up the gap between perception and the job at hand:

And we need new heroes. Young men like the YouTubers I saw the other night, who are not creepy and predatory online but just silly and kind — two blokes who are confident enough in their masculinity to paint on cat's whiskers, dance in sparkly gear and entertain roomfuls of young girls and old mothers with their sweet, dorky divineness.

The simple fact is that boys and adolescent males and men like this have been around since the year dot. We're everywhere, in every walk of life. Yet these boys and adolescents and men are hardly ever given a second glance by their female contemporaries - they're too geeky, too shy, too backward in coming forward, too... unmanly.

It's fine to point out we - all of us, not just female authors of facile, fatuous media articles - need boys and men who exhibit more than one dimension of their personalities. There's even a point to be made about male role models. The real question is: where's the support from the mothers and the girls and the young women? What is the point of fathers and male role models expending all this effort to encourage boys and young men to be "different" when their female contemporaries largely dismiss such boys as "weirdos" and don't give them a second glance in the dating circus?

I'm all for encouraging sensitivity and self-expression and uniqueness in boys and young men; fuknose the suicide statistics alone demand significant change. But equally, there is no excuse at all for these boys' mothers and sisters and female peers taking a back seat and laying the responsibility at the door of boys and men.

Whatever happened to "the Bigger Picture"?

2016-08-27T14:07:03+00:00

https://www.tes.com/news/school-news/breaking-views/boys-underperform-schools-because-we-look-after-their-wellbeing-less

The ensuing debate became focused on the under-performance of boys in the classroom compared with girls – why that might be and if it might be attributable to the lack of male teachers, particularly at primary level. That was when my colleague, Grace, passed me a note (retro-style).

The note said: “Isn’t it just that boys underperform because we look after their wellbeing less?”

It was a lightbulb moment. Afterwards, we discussed the numerous occasions we have visited schools and a decision has been made to divide the year group by gender, the girls coming with us for a lesson on mental health, body image or self-esteem and the boys being sent to have a lecture on not being sexist. Because apparently boys do not have brains or bodies, only an inbuilt penchant for misogyny.

Being a Boy: The Monster Inside

There seems to be a problem with feminists and their efforts to change male behavior. Feminists seem to view men and boys as walking predators hellbent on oppressing, demeaning, and hurting women and girls every waking moment of their lives. They also seem to believe that until the advent of second-wave feminism males experienced no other emotion but rage. Feminists marry the two ideas together to come up with the theory that only with feminism can men and boys ever express true emotions and lose their violent tendencies.

Why can't a man be more like a woman

I have occasionally suggested that when teachers and therapists try to make men more sensitive, more empathic, and more deeply feeling beings, they are effectively refusing to accept boys and men for what they are. They are trying, through psychological and other means, to make men more like women.

They believe that they are striking a role for morality, offering a cure for various pathologies, and making the world a better place. Once men can get in touch with the depths of their feelings they will be less aggressive, less predatory, and less competitive.

Forget competing against the Chinese of the Japanese. Forget fighting terrorism or crime. Men are going to feel so deeply that they are going to surpass competitive striving.

Men don’t have problems, they cause them’ is now the only politically correct thing you can say about men

On Monday, The Times reported on the Raising Awareness and Prevention initiative – a project in which a former New York sex-crime prosecutor goes into London schools to lecture boys on how porn is generating a rise in misogyny. The article starts with this sentence: “Mission impossible: one hour to re-programme teenage boys’ sexual manners so they are fit for a feminist world”.

It ends with this: “These are boys any parent would be proud of and they are also now scarred for life. Any time they imagine doing something furtive online, it will trigger the thought that adults of influence – maybe even some formidable American women – are seeing into their souls via their search history. Mission accomplished.”

This isn’t sex education. It’s indoctrination, bordering on abuse. It’s also just one example of what is now a pervasive drive to limit the discussion of men and masculinity to a single narrative: Men don’t have problems, they cause them.

2016-08-27T13:47:47+00:00

https://archive.is/QTuQz

Lumberingfeather · 2016-08-27T16:51:49+00:00

Boys will come to show women the respect women give men and boys - which, it would seem, will be zero.

lostapwbm · 2016-08-27T14:01:12+00:00

This is a big nothing-burger of an op-ed. Long on anecdotes and FEELZ, short on anything that remotely resembles proper argumentation.

I'm always amused by how easy it is for females to lecture complete strangers (men) on how they should think, act, and react to things. To offer one's thoughtful opinion is one thing; it is entirely another to proclaim from on high: "MEN MUST DO X! MEN MUST NOT DO X! MEN MUST BE MORE X! MEN MUST BE LESS X! SO SAYETH [Insert Feminist Twit Name Here]"

The arrogance of women.

EsraYmssik · 2016-08-27T18:44:45+00:00

I wish there was a way women could truly, honestly step into a man's shoes for a minute and experience this kind of thing. How is it fair (it's not) or allowed that women can just blame men constantly for all of the ills of the world? Every goddam thing wrong with society is our fault, apparently. I just wonder what they would think if they could see it from the other side for once. And I don't understand how they don't, tbh.

I actually had a convo with a couple female friends the other day about who pays on dates and one of them said that she doesn't even reach for her wallet for the first couple of dates because if they split the bill how will she know if he likes her? And I said, well what about the guy? How does he know you like him? He gets no such signs of assurance, yet he's still out $X. How can you not see the hypocrisy? And she's a nice, progressive woman whom I like very much. She just never considered the guys perspective. It didn't occur to her to do so because we so rarely ask women in general to do this.

Sorry for the rant. I just don't get how people can be so oblivious at times and not take a broader look at their perspective. Like, if they could experience the barrage of negative messages that guys receive about their toxic, dangerous masculinity, I think they'd be a little surprised.

BDMR_lurker · 2016-08-27T15:25:02+00:00

So how do we change this culture?

We don't. Don't wanna.

These articles are strawmen, describing a fictitious issue, and demanding real action to 'solve' it, ie: remake the world according to the author's view.

2016-08-27T18:28:14+00:00

Tell boys (and girls) that respect is EARNED ... tell our children to respect those people (both men and women) who have earned respect. And tell our children to disrespect those people (both men and women) who have earned disrespect.

Simple. Common Sense. No bull shit.

2016-08-27T23:13:16+00:00

We live in a society that celebrates a narrow definition of masculinity, yet we know few men actually fit into it.

And their advice is to push this narrow definition of masculinity even further by having them respect women without respecting themselves first and teaching women to give equal respect back.

MRA-automatron-2kb · 2016-08-27T16:17:36+00:00

You can teach boys to respect girls all you want but at the end of the day, it's the girl who picks the boy she wants to be with.

If she picks a jerk over a kind boy, that is the decision she made.

MagicTampon · 2016-08-28T05:51:35+00:00

Mythandros · 2016-08-28T08:00:09+00:00

We should talk to women about respecting men. How about that instead?

Title	"How should we talk to boys about respecting women?" - ABC News Australia.
Author	ThePigmanAgain
Upvotes	16
Comments	21
Date	August 27, 2016 10:42 AM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/4ztqhq/how_should_we_talk_to_boys_about_respecting_women/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/how-should-we-talk-to-boys-about-respecting-women.942834 https://theredarchive.com/post/942834

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