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Man falsely accused of rape left naked in Hull police cell with broken kneecaps

roharareddit

August 15, 2016
51 upvotes
/r/MensRights
http://m.hulldailymail.co.uk/police-left-innocent-russian-man-naked-for-five-hours-in-cell-with-two-broken-legs/story-29618612-detail/story.html
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Title Man falsely accused of rape left naked in Hull police cell with broken kneecaps
Author

roharareddit

Upvotes 51
Comments 21
Date August 15, 2016 5:12 PM UTC
(9 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/4xumu4/man_falsely_accused_of_rape_left_naked_in_hull/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/man-falsely-accused-of-rape-left-naked-in-hull.943668
https://theredarchive.com/post/943668
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Comments

[–]William__F0ster 14 points15 points16 points 9 years ago* (17 children) | Copy Link

I've just been looking at selected parts of the Independent Police Complaints Commission report into this, and the relevant parts make for interesting reading (Investigation into the detention and treatment of Mr W by Humberside Police at Clough Road police station between 13 and 14 February 2014).

From the statement of witness, Miss Y:

Ms Y was at home on 13 February 2014 when she heard a commotion outside her property. She saw three men aged approximately 18-19 years old taking it in turns to attack the door of a neighbouring house.

The men continued to kick in the door until the bottom panel gave way. She saw a man with his back to the door as if he was trying to prevent the men from getting into the property.

The man with his back to the door is the man who had his kneecaps broken, by the way. Not exactly sure how she could see this from where she was standing, but anyway, apparently it's the case.

This is the Russian man's version:

Mr W informed us that, at the time of his arrest he had been staying at Ms X’s home, at her invitation, for between a week and 10 days.

Ms X is the woman who accused him of rape, by the way.

Mr W described how at 4pm on 13 February 2014 he awoke to find Ms X running around the flat with a long sharp object in one hand and a crowbar in the other arguing with someone on the telephone. Mr W stated he did not understand what was happening but half an hour later he noticed a silver Vauxhall Astra car outside the property. Three men emerged from the car and started banging on the front door of the property.

These are the same men that Miss Y reported seeing; the one's who were trying to batter the door down.

Mr W described how he sat with his legs against the door in order to prevent the men entering the house and therefore to protect Ms X. As the men smashed through the door they managed to break his legs in the process. Upon entering the house the men passed by Mr W and paid him no attention.

The part about them ignoring him is corroborated by the neighbour's statement, by the way.

The next part, the police become involved:

At 4.56pm on 13 February 2014 the police in Hull were contacted to say a woman was being beaten by an unnamed Russian man.

At 4.59pm police received another telephone call from a 'foreign male, possibly called 'W' requesting police assistance. The operator also heard a woman shouting and swearing about being locked in and being raped.

Remember that part. The police records later show that:

... incident log 467, documents that officers attended the address of Ms X at 20:36. At 20:38:25 it states ‘female adult in custody for wasting police time.’

You see it took 2 and a 1/2 minutes to explain that the allegation was false?

Ms X could not fully explain why she had told the officers that Mr W had raped her. She said she suffers from bi-polar, is still grieving for her son and that she was angry that Mr W and (another male) had had a fight in her flat and caused damage to the vase. She accepted that she was wrong to make false allegations and realised that police time will have been wasted. She has been issued with a caution for cause [sic] wasteful employment of police.'

If you're still reading this, what do you think the odds are that the real reason why she made the rape allegation against Mr W was not that she was bi-polar, but because she believed reporting a rape allegation would ensure the police came immediately?

Remember, it wasn't her that made the call to the police, but first it was a neighbour and then it was Mr W himself, while lying in the garden with broken kneecaps, and it was Miss X who yelled about being imprisoned and raped in the background?

I mean I'm speculating there, but still ...

Edit: TL;DR

The above are extracts from the investigation into complaints against the police.

The guy who had his kneecaps broken was staying in the flat of the woman who accused him at her invitation - he was a guest in other words.

The reason why his kneecaps got broken in the first place was that he was injured while trying to protect her - three dudes had turned up at the flat and were trying to kick the door in.

The guy's kneecaps were broken because he'd put his legs against the other side of the door to try and prevent the three men from breaking in.

This is only speculation, but I wonder if the reason why the woman claimed rape was because she believed she was more certain to get a police car to come immediately if she did.

Which would have very interesting implications if that were true ...

[–]Tedesche 7 points8 points9 points 9 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

Therapist here. I can't attest to this woman's mental state, but based on my own experience in clinical practice, I've found that Bipolar Disorder is often diagnosed in people who are actually suffering from Borderline Personality Disorder. There are a variety of reasons for this, which I won't get into, but the main point is that women with Borderline Personality Disorder are known to have suffered rape or sexual abuse in their past, and are often very socially manipulative, hypersensitive to criticism and conflict in relationships, and—while I'm not aware of any studies or statistics that demonstrate it—casually known for false reports of rape and domestic violence.

Maybe she had a borderline personality, maybe not. It doesn't really matter though. She falsely accused him of rape. She should be behind bars.

[–]William__F0ster 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

women with Borderline Personality Disorder are known to have suffered rape or sexual abuse in their past, and are often very socially manipulative, hypersensitive to criticism and conflict in relationships

I notice you've said are known and not qualified it with generally or it's thought that or usually it's the case that - so is that true?

Whenever there is BPD there is always a history of sexual abuse/rape there? And I assume you mean this was in childhood, or can it happen in adulthood as well?

I believe you - I'm not a therapist - but I'm surprised by this.

She should be behind bars.

Really, you think so?

I can understand it if her lie was a malicious one but if as you say her BPD is likely the result of past sexual abuse and rape, wouldn't some form of therapy be a better solution than simply locking her up?

I'm slightly surprised that a therapist you think she should serve time.

I can't attest to this woman's mental state ...

There is a reference to grief over the (presumably recent) loss of a child, but also bear in mind the report says three young guys all aged about 18-19 clambered out of a silver Vauxhall Astra and proceeded to kick the door in to get inside the house.

At first I thought it was possible that Mr W. was in fact abusive to Miss X in some way, and that at least one of these men was a relative of Miss X who had basically come around to kick the shite out of Mr W.

But then the statement of Miss Y, the neighbour, plus a Latvian woman in the report I've not mentioned here, both seem to corroborate Mr W's story that once the three men had kicked the door in and entered the house, they paid no attention to Mr W at all - so it can't have been the case that they were coming to what they had assumed to be Miss X's rescue.

That was what made me wonder about the allegation, that seems to have been made during Mr W's call to the police from the garden, and not from her own phone.

[–]Tedesche 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

I notice you've said are known and not qualified it with generally or it's thought that or usually it's the case that - so is that true?

Sorry, that sentence was really poorly worded on my part. People with BPD are statistically established to have suffered from rape/sexual abuse in their childhood/teenage years (something like 80% of cases, IIRC). What is not established by the literature AFAIK, but is noted by a lot of clinical observations and anecdotal evidence, is that BPD women make false accusations. This is one manifestation of their tendency to lie/manipulate, which is noted in the literature, but is not officially a feature of the disorder according to the DSM-V.

I don't mean to suggest that most women with BPD falsely accuse; I'm simply saying it's been observed before, so there's reason to suspect—if this woman did have BPD—that might have been a contributing factor.

Really, you think so?

Yes, even if BPD was involved. Prison and therapy are not mutually exclusive things. I may be a therapist, but that doesn't have any bearing on my stance regarding crime and punishment. Well, actually, it sort of does—I know better than most that most mental disorders do not actually meet the legal requirement for the insanity plea (not knowing right from wrong). Having a mental disorder should not make one immune from the having to take responsibility for one's actions. Exceptions include people in severely psychotic states (assaulting someone because you think they're trying to kill you), dissociative states ("multiple personalities," and "out of body" experiences in which the person does not have conscious control of their actions), and severe flashbacks. A woman with BPD who commits a crime is in no way detached from reality, and more importantly still knows what she's doing is wrong—that she may feel she's justified due to the illness is not the same thing.

Anyway, I only mentioned BPD, due to the claim of Bipolar Disorder and the false allegation. There isn't enough information in the article or your summation of the case file to say (not that I could diagnose her without meeting her anyway).

[–]William__F0ster 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Thanks for replying, you may not have time for this, but I have to ask about this:

[BPD women] are often very socially manipulative, hypersensitive to criticism and conflict in relationships, and—... — casually known for false reports of rape and domestic violence.

People with BPD are statistically established to have suffered from rape/sexual abuse in their childhood/teenage years (something like 80% of cases, IIRC)

Working on the assumption that the majority of BPD sufferers won't be diagnosed or come into contact with therapy until their later teenage years and early adulthood and given that you know that they are "very socially manipulative" and prone to making "false reports of rape and domestic violence" ... doesn't that put an absolutely humungous question mark over the validity of that 80% figure?

I mean if the only evidence of their childhood or teenage sexual abuse / trauma / rape is the BPD sufferer's own self-reporting of it and as they also known (in adult life) for fabricating rape and IPV accusations doesn't that present a dilemma about how it's possible to know whether or not what they say happened to them actually did happen to them?

I mean, obviously, if there are social work or police records that show the abuse really did happen, then clearly it's true in those cases - but that would mean that we can depend on law enforcement and other agencies to investigate rape and sexual assualt - but isn't that a bugbear of many feminist activists who claim as many as 93% of rapes and sexual assaults go unreported and/or result in the 'rapist' going free?

Prison and therapy are not mutually exclusive things.

Of course not, sure. But prisons are full of people who in a sense shouldn't be there. I don't mean because they haven't committed a crime because generally they have, but because prison won't have any effect on their behaviour.

A woman with BPD who commits a crime is in no way detached from reality, and more importantly still knows what she's doing is wrong ...

Legally speaking then, it seems hardly worth offering the diagnosis if that's true ... I mean, that just makes it sound like a fancy name for a complete asshole.

[–]Tedesche 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I can't speak to the quality of the research in general, and I can't even specifically remember where I read that statistic, but I can tell you that this is accepted as fact by the APA. It's based a lot on the work of Marsha Linehan, a therapist who developed Dialectical Behavior Therapy, which is specifically designed to treat borderlines, and who suffered from BPD herself for most of her youth.

Speaking from my experiences treating borderlines, while they are frequently manipulative, they don't always outright lie to you, and when they do, it's often not about such consequential things. Also, they don't necessarily have any particular talent for lying (apart from experience), so it's not as if you can't catch them in one. If you suspect a patient is lying to you, it's a good idea to try to see if others can corroborate their account, if at all possible.

Anyway, you can ask yourself this simple question: what's more likely?

1.) Childhood sexual abuse is a contributing factor to Borderline Personality Disorder.

2.) Sufficient numbers of borderlines have independently convinced trained researchers and therapists that they suffered childhood sexual abuse to such an extent that the entire field of psychology has been duped.

As for prisons...my opinion is that prison time is not a form of treatment—it is punishment. Punishment's purpose is to deter future crimes and provide a sense of reciprocal suffering to the criminal's victims, such that their need for justice is sated. When criminals are punished too leniently, victims have a hard time finding closure to their own suffering, and that can lead to future problems for them. I don't think people who advocate for prisons to be replaced with mandatory treatment centers have given sufficient thought to how they would feel if someone who harmed them severely was sentenced to mandatory treatment that wound up only taking a few months for one reason or another.

[–]William__F0ster 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Thanks for the reference to Marsha Linehan, which I’ll have to check out.

The reason why I’m interested in this here is that, as you are probably well aware, there is a great deal of controversy around the existence of false rape allegations and there are extremists at both ends of the spectrum, with people at one end urging us to ‘Listen and believe’ (up to and including confirmed liars), while people at the other arguing that anything that isn’t a stranger rape/assault can’t be considered rape at all.

So in other words, is it entirely possible that women who make false rape accusations may not be victims of the specific individual that they name, but they are nonetheless a victim of sexual assault and violence which, in feminist terms, would presumably make false rape accusations evidence of ‘rape culture’.

Anyway, you can ask yourself this simple question: what's more likely?

1.) Childhood sexual abuse is a contributing factor to Borderline Personality Disorder.

2.) Sufficient numbers of borderlines have independently convinced trained researchers and therapists that they suffered childhood sexual abuse to such an extent that the entire field of psychology has been duped.

I can see what you’re trying to say, but while I respect professionalism and expertise, at the same time I don’t buy arguments from authority.

Goldman Sachs, Merril Lynch, Lehman Brothers, Deutsche Bank, HSBC, Royal Bank of Scotland etc. all employed - and still employ - some very clever, very dynamic people - who nevertheless completely fucked up based on erroneous beliefs and/or faith in just what exactly a collateralised debt obligation was and just what level of risk it represented.

In many cases, they effectively bullied and bamboozled rating agency staff such as Standard & Poors into signing off mounds of toxic waste as low risk financial investments.

So no, I’m afraid I would need to see a much higher level of proof than “everyone in the field thinks its true”.

So yes, I’ll definitely check out Marsha Linehan online so thanks again for that.

When criminals are punished too leniently, victims have a hard time finding closure to their own suffering, and that can lead to future problems for them.

This is a very fair point.

However, what I had in mind was something that would treat the cause rather than deal with the symptom.

That doesn’t make me insensitive to the needs of the victims of crimes already committed, but sensitive to the needs of the community in which she (or he) might repeat that crime on fresh victims.

[–]Tedesche 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I can see what you’re trying to say, but while I respect professionalism and expertise, at the same time I don’t buy arguments from authority.

While that's certainly a fair stance to take, I think with reference to a field like psychology, if your threshold for evidence is too high, you make it impossible to meet, because psychology is a "soft" science. We can't look inside people's minds and determine for certain whether or not they're lying or, for that matter, what their true diagnosis should is. Psychologists rely on behavioral symptoms they agree by consensus are indicative of the pathologies we treat, and in lieu of significant advances in neuroscience, that's all we as a society have when it comes to the treatment of mental health issues.

If you need more convincing about the involvement of sexual abuse in BPD, I can only suggest you look it up yourself and do some reading. There's been a lot written about it, so there should be plenty for you to sift through.

However, what I had in mind was something that would treat the cause rather than deal with the symptom.

I'm certainly not against prisoners receiving mental health treatment during their incarceration. In fact, that should probably be the standard. Prisoners are people too, I don't forget that fact, and they deserve to have the issues that lead them to commit their crimes addressed—that's only in the interests of their future and society's safety.

[–]William__F0ster 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

I think with reference to a field like psychology, if your threshold for evidence is too high, you make it impossible to meet, because psychology is a "soft" science.

I assure I’m perfectly well aware of this in the same way that I’m perfectly well aware that subjects such as Sociology, Education, Gender and Cultural Studies are all also social sciences.

When a graduate or professor from one of these fields announces rather airily that, for example, black women cannot be racist because racism is prejudice plus power, or that we live in a society that raises men and boys to hate women or that capitalism perpetuates heteropatriarchal oppression of women, I don’t think it’s a matter of putting the "threshold for evidence ... too high” to want to see a better explanation and/or proof that these things are true than someone saying ‘Do you think n number of sociologists around the world could be wrong?’

On the other hand, I am not one of these people who believes that the ‘soft’ or social sciences can deliver nothing of value on the grounds that their claims can’t be tested in quite the same way as many of those in the ‘hard’ sciences can - that would be both ignorant as well as insulting to professionals who may have spent years or decades devoted to the study of the field.

If you need more convincing about the involvement of sexual abuse in BPD, I can only suggest you look it up yourself and do some reading.

It’s not a matter of needing to be convinced so much as wanting to see how the figure of c. 80% I think you said was arrived at (doubt and skepticism are not necessarily marks of disrespect I wouldn’t say).

And as before, I do intend to read up on Dr Marsha Linehan’s research and many thanks again for pointing me in her direction, as I would never have known about this otherwise.

Edit Just FYI:

Studies have demonstrated that people diagnosed with BPD have a high prevalence of childhood sexual abuse. In addition, childhood sexual abuse is associated with attachment avoidance. Some estimate a 75 percent rate of childhood sexual abuse in BPD patients. Furthermore, childhood sexual abuse was found to distinguish BPD patients from depressed, non-BPD adolescents.

Also this:

'Borderline Personality Disorder and Childhood Sexual Abuse: A Meta-Analytic Study’ Fossati, Andrea; Madeddu, Fabio; Maffei, Cesare. Journal of Personality Disorders 13.3 (Sep 1999): 268-280.

A meta-analysis of the published literature was performed to evaluate the common effect size (r) of the association between childhood sexual abuse (CSA) and Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD). An online search from 1980 to 1995 was used to gather published papers, r coefficient was used as an effect size measure, and 21 studies were retrieved. A moderate pooled r (.279) for the association between CSA and BPD was observed. Pooled effect size estimates were also obtained for CSA parame ters. No significant effect of moderators was evidenced. The results of this study did not support the hypothesis that CSA is a major psychological risk factor or a causal antecedent of BPD.

Hardly conclusive from just one paper and a not very recent one at that, but potentially interesting at least.

[–]chadwickofwv 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

So, if they are known to falsely accuse of rape, why are we so sure the abuse they suffered as a child was not also a false accusation?

[–]Tedesche 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Umm...because when someone tells you they were abused, you don't automatically assume they're lying, just because they happen to be diagnosed with a disorder that has been known to correlate with false accusations in some cases? You investigate—even in therapy—and make a judgment call about when you have more information. Again, most people aren't actually that good at lying, and therapists are better at reading people than your average person. Furthermore, there are signs of trauma associated with rape that are pretty hard to fake to someone who knows what to look for.

I'll put it to you this way, when I was just 13 years old, I attended a summer camp. There was a girl there, who told a group of us a story about how she had been repeatedly raped and molested by her therapist. Even at that age, I immediately knew she was lying, and I think most of the other people there did too. How? Because real rape victims don't tell a group of people about their experience—let alone in the level of detail that she did—out of the blue like that. She also said there was a shower in her therapist's office, which...yeah. Finally, while telling the story, she kept her eyes on the ground, spoke in this really quiet voice, and looked really timid and shy, but once she'd finished and people were asking questions, she'd respond in her normal voice and look you in the eyes.

Contrast that with my clients who describe their experiences being raped in my sessions these days. First of all, they do not want to talk about it most of the time. When they do, their gaze is often far off, because they're remembering the event. They don't seem timid or shy or afraid or ashamed. They seem numb. Numb or in pain, and very occasionally angry—not at their rapist, mind you, but at themselves. They often can't recall all of the details, and the details they do remember often seem inconsequential. Their memory of how much time it took is often fairly poor too; they sometimes recall, but frequently they say they just have no conception of it, which is a consequence of being in a traumatized state during and after the event. When you ask them about the days after the rape, they sometimes describe being unable to feel anything, and feeling like the entire world is "muted" emotionally, which again is a consequence of trauma.

In short, actual rape experiences leave very identifiable psychological scars on victims, which manifest in particular behaviors and reported symptoms. No two victims respond exactly the same, but there is enough overlap to paint a relatively reliable picture of what rape trauma looks like. Rape malingerers often can't mimic this, even if they've done their homework.

Rape in childhood is somewhat different, I should note, since the memory is usually vaguer and the trauma older, so the signs are different, but also consistent enough across cases that there are ways of telling a real victim from a fake one. It's not a perfect process, obviously, and some malingerers do fool their therapists, but the idea that all or even most of these women are lying is just too much of a stretch. As I said, lying about rape has been known to happen among borderlines, but it is by no means a consistent symptom of the disorder.

[–]chadwickofwv 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I never said anything about assuming that they are lying, but good explanation though.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Good find.

[–]chadwickofwv 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Do you know why this guy was arrested in the first place then?

[–]William__F0ster 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Yes - he was arrested because the woman (Miss X) had accused him of imprisoning her in her flat and of raping her.

See above:

Ms X could not fully explain why she had told the officers that Mr W had raped her. She said she suffers from bi-polar, is still grieving for her son and that she was angry that Mr W and (another male) had had a fight in her flat and caused damage to the vase. She accepted that she was wrong to make false allegations and realised that police time will have been wasted. She has been issued with a caution for cause [sic] wasteful employment of police.'

[–]chadwickofwv 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Didn't you say the woman recanted within minutes of the police showing up? That doesn't leave a reason for him to be arrested.

[–]William__F0ster 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Not quite.

He was picked up by police shortly after the phone call in which he was accused of imprisonment and rape which was some time after 5 pm.

It was until about 3 hours later that police went back to the woman to get a statement from her, at which point she immediately explained the charge was false:

… officers attended the address of Ms X at 20:36. At 20:38:25 it states ‘female adult in custody for wasting police time.’

That’s what I understood happened, though by that time they might have detained for being what they thought was drunk and being possibly involved in some very shady goings on (the three young guys who had clearly kicked the door in of the woman’s flat)

[–]chadwickofwv 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks, that explains it.

[–]AxionGaming 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I find not only what happened to the man to be outraging, but what DIDN'T happen to the woman who accused him upon admitting that she lied:

"woman who had accused him of rape - which led to his arrest - later admitted lying and was cautioned for wasting police time"

Are you kidding me? All she gets is a warning to not lie again?

[–]roharareddit[S] 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Standard procedure. We refuse to hold women to a level of accountability approaching anywhere near what men face.

[–]babno 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

On the bright side it looks like an investigation was done and discipline should be forthcoming to the offending officers, as well as new safeguards to prevent this sort of thing in the future.

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