Paul Elam screws over Atilla Vincer before throwing him out of AVFM

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Holy cow.. so 'mhra1' is indeed Elam. The clown couldnt even take the mildest of criticism from me, and that too here on MR away from his site.

Man.. I got even lesser sympathies for him now for all the hate thats raining down.

On the matter of activism, there really isnt much that the MRM or ROK can do to make the powers-that-be change anything. These groups arent even on the radar.

Even if AVFM conducts a conference, who the fuck cares? 200 people attend some same-old-stuff, and after that.. what happens? Its not like they are pounding the pavement in front of Capitol Hill and attracting huge crowds and the politicians are going to do something. Nor are the videos on YT going viral. Chapin has <1000 views per vid. AVFM conference videos have 2K-3K.

In the past, the MRM scared feminists and got them to out-themselves in public.. like Big Red, and the fire-alarm pulling, and banging on desks at Janice Fiamengo lecture. That was a big gain, and popular YTers like AmazingAtheist, Thunderf00t used that footage to spread the message further. But now.. AVFM showing their faces in public is actually bringing negative publicity sometimes, like in the recent case of "Valenti wont get to suck my dick".

Ultimately its just about wider reach and raising awareness, so that more people can listen and take appropriate action to safeguard themselves.. going MGTOW, say. So, while AVFM engages in some costly activism ..such as staging conference at Kennesaw State Univ, or getting involved in legal cases like the celebrity dude Coyote Shivers.. there is little bang for the buck there.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Except that Elam markets himself as an "activist" who pretends to do real world shit, not just "another men's website".

Although conferences don't change anything by themselves, they give people the ability to meet each other in REAL LIFE and network. A consistent conference every year would allow MRAs to network with each other to grow the movement in real life.

AVFM as just a website is basically worthless since there is ROK, MRA subreddit, TRP, etc.

Elam isn't even a big youtuber. He has been surpassed readily by Red Pill Philosophy, Bar Bar, Girl Writes What, Stephen Molyneaux, Amazing Atheist, Thunderfood, Davis Aurini, etc.

If Elam doesn't do shit in real life besides have an internet site or youtube video page, why does he require fundraising for his "activism" then?

That is where the big problem comes from.

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[–]mhra1 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link

Fascinating perspective.

We are on the last day of a membership drive for AVFM in which the number of new subscribers doubled my expectations.

First, the ICMI 15 cancels due to low support and significant overpricing.

ICMI 15 was cancelled and replaced with a retreat due to staff burnout. The tickets for the original event were ridiculously low compared to the cost of putting on the event. I did not expect you to know that since, you know, you really have no idea what you are talking about.

Next, Dean Esmay leaves due to "personal reasons".

And? Is he not allowed to do that? Why don't you ask him about it. He is easy to find. Or, if you prefer I can pass your question along to him since we are good friend, talk in some way almost daily and he still writes for AVFM. Maybe his answer can help you trim back on your use of scare quotes.

Finally, Atilla Vincer (big AVFM supporter) is basically thrown out of AVFM by Paul Elam due to "financial" issues.

That is correct if you remove the scare quotes. Attila left a bad financial taste in the mouths of many people, including myself, Erin Pizzey, Martin Fiebert, Tanveer Ahmed Al Martin. As is on record that is only a partial list of people who now have serious trust issues with Attila, all about money.

Apparently, Paul Elam hasn't really given money/supported the DV Toronto event causing significant financial hardship to Atilla Vincer.

The Symposium was not an AVFM event. It was hosted by the Maltese Charitable Trust. I gave Attila my endorsement and carte blanche to use AVFM's platform to sell tickets and raise donations.

Personally, I think that was pretty generous given that Attila owed me several thousand dollars which he was making no efforts to repay.

I'd say it is pretty obtuse to conclude that the way I handled this CAUSED Attila financial hardship. Then again, you are SGOTI, so, meh.

What does Paul Elam do with the money he raises for AVFM besides line his own pockets? No ICMI or help for other conferences provided by AVFM.

I have not taken a single dime in AVFM revenue since February of this year. My pockets are full of dust as a result, but this was necessary to stabilize AVFM under a different model which is less burdensome to supporters.

That is why AVFM revenues have collapsed.

AVFM revenues have surely reduced, primarily because we are asking for less in terms of support. i.e. Ending fundraisers with large financial goals and moving to a simple memebership model in which MRAs could support for as little as $5 a month.

AVFM has become a joke of an organization that has been in disarray for the last year.

Easy to say for SGOTI, and there is a little truth there. We have indeed been in a period of transition. Content has dropped, along with it some traffic. Revenues have decreased, along with our abiiity to do activism and support other efforts like the DV Symposium.

All part of rebuilding into a more stable and less less burdensome platform for the sake of activism.

Thanks SGOTI. Your comment is biased, short on facts and the like, but it did provide a good example for me to go on record here with a reponse to much of the drivel being posted about AVFM right now. I will use this comment in the days ahead so I do not have to repeat myself.

Cheers

Paul Elam

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

Paul,

ICMI 15 was the biggest failure for most MRMs that are highly concerned about AVFM. Are you honestly trying to say you can't put on a conference for less than 650/person?

Thats insane considering the sparse lineup of speakers. Are you seriously arguing you can't put on a conference for 200/person at the most?

How do other groups put on conferences for 200/person with only 100-200 attendees then? Maybe you should ask Jared Taylor at Amren (WN group that is also considered "fringe") how he pulls it off. His tickets run around 200/person. He runs conferences that have only 100-200 people attend.

If you were more transparent about the finances, you'd have more credibility.

The biggest problems with your pricing include:

1) Why would you would need "45 volunteers" that have to be flown into a conference that will have at MOST 200 attendees. That is just ridiculous.

2) How much does the venue actually cost for 100-200 attendees? Why not make it a shorter 1 to 2 day conference? A venue for that size can't be more than 10K/day.

3) Cost of flights for speakers, hotel, etc shouldn't exceed 1K/attendee with approximately 10 speakers. That should equal about 10K in revenue.

4) "Security" costs for such an event should be approximately 5K at the most.

5) Add at MOST 5 volunteers for a conference of 200 people for "setting up". You should have enough local Texans to do that without having to pay for a flight or even hotel.

I can't see why the Revenues required for this event needs to exceed 40K at the HIGHEST.

200 attendees at 200/person should cover the necessary revenue for such an event.

Concerning the Atilla situation:

He appears to be ONE OF MANY who have left you organization due to similar concerns. To write such a negative and hostile diatribe for a guy who literally volunteered for you and spent his OWN money is truly shocking.

Furthermore, the lack of transparency towards your "fundraising" is another aspect of AVFM that has probably caused the funding to dry up.

What do you spend the money on Paul? It clearly isn't on CONFERENCES, employees ( free volunteers), court cases, domestic violence shelters, etc. Where did the >100K go that was donated to AVFM besides your pockets?

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[–]mhra1 -2 points-1 points0 points 10 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

I've been calling for this for a long time. AVFM is indefensible.

ROTFLMAO, calling on who? Reddit commenters? You calling out to the great wide interwebs for someone to do something about AVFM? Maybe the Tooth Fairy or Santa Claus? Who the fuck do you imagine in that pointed little head of yours is listening when you are doing all this "calling out"?

Have you even noticed that your calling out has resulted in jack shit? That is because no one who has the capabilty to do anything more than call out to a bunch of anons in a forum is even listening to you. What are they going to do, shut us down for you?

Jesus, man, are you a teenager?

Yes, AVFM is indefensible. Largely because we need not defend or justify ourselves to anyone.

Personally, I don't give a tosh if we are removed from reddit or anywhere else. We will still be doing our thing and no one is going to stop us. Especially with this deluded "calling out" on reddit. Your best bet is to ignore us and quit pretending there is an audience here that can do anything. Just saying.

I don't know what else to tell you morons. AVFM is not going away. We are not going to kowtow to feeble commenters on a news aggregate any more than we are to feminists.

Perhaps you could obsess on something else, like something you can change.

Again, just saying.

[–]tiqr 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

You're just reinforcing my point, Paul. Your vitriol has caused more harm to the movement you claim to care about than anyone else. You provide the perfect real life "straw man" for opponents of men's issues to criticize.

Also, if you don't care what reddit says, you wouldn't feel the need to defend yourself on reddit, and resort to personal attacks against a complete stranger you know nothing about. You are behaving exactly as your detractors claim. A bully.

Yes, AVFM is indefensible. Largely because we need not defend or justify ourselves to anyone.

And yet... here you are defending yourself. Against a reddit comment with one upvote. Calling a complete stranger a moron teenager "with a pointed little head". These are not the actions of the leader of a "human rights movement". They are the actions of a small man, and a bully. And for the first time ever, you have earned not only my contempt, but my pity.

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Title	Paul Elam screws over Atilla Vincer before throwing him out of AVFM
Author	fundude12
Upvotes	6
Comments	52
Date	October 6, 2015 6:52 PM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/3nqoux/paul_elam_screws_over_atilla_vincer_before/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/paul-elam-screws-over-atilla-vincer-before.969946 https://theredarchive.com/post/969946

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