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Most blatant anti-male wikipedia lie yet?

DavidByron2

March 27, 2015
48 upvotes
/r/MensRights
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male_rape#Female-on-male_rape
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Post Information
Title Most blatant anti-male wikipedia lie yet?
Author

DavidByron2

Upvotes 48
Comments 29
Date March 27, 2015 8:27 PM UTC
(11 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/30j3pd/most_blatant_antimale_wikipedia_lie_yet/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/most-blatant-anti-male-wikipedia-lie-yet.984686
https://theredarchive.com/post/984686
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Comments

[–]DavidByron2[S] 31 points32 points33 points 11 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

Female-on-male rape appears to be extremely rare: a study carried out in the United States in 2010 by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found that out of men who reported having been raped at some point in their lives, 93.3% reported that all the perpetrators were male

The facts: female on male rape seems to be about 40% of all rape, and about 80% of the rape of men. The really funny thing is that they actually quote as their "source" the study that proves they are wrong.

Not even a note that the content of the page is controversial or disputed. Blatant lying along ideological lines by an ideological group that Wikipedia pays to edit their pages.

[–]rg57 4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"93.3% reported that all the perpetrators were male"

I love how 93.3% are described as reporting the gender of 100% of the perpetrators (even though the referenced article says nothing of the sort ... that's why I try to always use the Quote property in Wikipedia when I cite an article. Hardly anyone else seems to).

[–]sdcrocks 5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago* (10 children) | Copy Link

The numbers cited in the Wikipedia article seem to be correct according to what the CDC report defines as "rape", which is basically forced penetration, while they track "made to penetrate" (i.e. what most female on male rapes would be) separately. So yes, 93.3% of men who are forcibly penetrated (the CDC report's definition of rape) are victims of other men, but at the same time 79.2% of men who are forced to penetrate are victims of women. Makes sense anatomically (people who rape by forcibly penetrating will probably be men, and people who rape by forcing to penetrate will probably be women), but in my opinion its dishonest to track rape and made to penetrate separately. If we include forced to penetrate events in the rape category, then approximately 62.9% of men who are raped are the victims of women (this is from simple number crunching based on the CDC table on page 19 and the statistics on gender on page 24. I just multiplied the number of men raped by the percentage raped by women and added that to the number of men forced to penetrate times the number of men forced to penetrate by women, divided over the number of men raped or forced to penetrate, and got the statistic).

Also, I couldn't find anything on pages 18 & 19 saying that men make up 40% of rape victims, the tables say that ~1.5 million men are raped sometime in their life vs. 21.8 million women. Even if we include forced to penetrate, the number only comes to about 6 million men. I agree that rape affects men as well, but the numbers do indicate that they make up less than 40% of rapes. Using my definition of rape that includes being forced to penetrate, men make up about 21.6% of all rapes, which is still larger than many people realize, I think.

Edit: Left off a couple of words at the end of a sentence, oops.

Edit 2: Here are the CDC definitions for rape and made to penetrate, regarding men.

Rape: "Among men, rape includes oral or anal penetration by a male using his penis. It also includes anal penetration by a male or female using their fingers or an object."

Made to Penetrate: "Among men, being made to penetrate someone else could have occurred in multiple ways: being made to vaginally penetrate a female using one’s own penis; orally penetrating a female’s vagina or anus; anally penetrating a male or female; or being made to receive oral sex from a male or female. It also includes female perpetrators attempting to force male victims to penetrate them, though it did not happen."

These definitions are available on page 17 of the report.

[–]DavidByron2[S] 7 points8 points9 points 11 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

I couldn't find anything on pages 18 & 19 saying that men make up 40% of rape victims

Use the more reliable 12 month figures. Feminists use the less reliable figures for a reason -- they like to deceive. Yes the CDC is deliberately misrepresenting it's own data and the Wikipedia feminists are of course using that. They just made up a totally bigoted "definition" of rape to exclude women as rapists. it has nothing to do with what the law says.

[–]sdcrocks 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

VERY interesting.

I still couldn't reach a 40% figure, but that's because I got about 50%. Perhaps this is because there isn't any data on 12-month rape statistics for men, but according to the charts, in 2010 1,270,000 women were raped, while 1,267,000 men were forced to penetrate. The difference between these two numbers is pretty negligible. I would be interested to know what accounts for the discrepancy between the lifetime statistics and the 12 month statistics. I think it's pretty reasonable to conclude that these numbers show that there was once a large gap between the number of women raped and the number of men raped, but that this gap has now pretty much vanished. I wonder if that means that less women are being raped, or that more men are being raped; I'd be inclined to believe that it's the former.

How did you get 40%?

[–]DavidByron2[S] 5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

male victims 50%, male victims of women 40% (= 50% x 79.2%)

I would be interested to know what accounts for the discrepancy between the lifetime statistics and the 12 month statistics

People forget. Men and minorities especially forget, but white women tend to remember (identify as victims) more easily. So there's a known bias in lifetime figures towards white women looking like victims. it's possible that rape rates simply changed over time but I doubt it. At any rate to see what they are right now you need the 12 month figures.

[–]sdcrocks 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Oh, I missed that you said female on male rape. However, you are still working with that 79.2% figure, which, as I said above, refers only to made to penetrate rape, and doesn't include forced penetration of men. Using the more accurate 62.9%, we reach the conclusion that 31.45% of all rapes are female on male.

As to your suggestion that men simply forget, I find this hard to believe. Rape is an intensely traumatic experience that you don't just forget. I would guess that, if not a result of changes in numbers of rapes over time, that it is cultural. Our culture tends to believe that men can't be raped, so many men probably rationalize their experience as sex that they just regret. However, I think today our culture is a little more enlightened on this subject, so it is possible that more men are reporting rape. I think rapes across the board are diminishing though, because violent crime of pretty much any sort has been declining for the past few decades. The shrinking gap is probably the result of the combination of cultural factors and changes in numbers of rape.

[–]DavidByron2[S] 3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

As to your suggestion that men simply forget, I find this hard to believe

TyphonBlue has some study where they took male child abuse victims and asked them in later life if they had been abused as kids and I think most said they hadn't.

[–]sdcrocks 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

There is a huge difference between a child repressing abusive memories and a large subset of the male rape victim population just forgetting that they got raped.

[–]DavidByron2[S] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

My guess is even half the female victims forget. I'm just saying a lot more of the men do. There's a lot of literature about this stuff out there. it really is a thing.

[–]sdcrocks 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm not denying repression exists (I'd hesitate to call it "forgetting" as if it just slipped their mind that they got raped), however there would have to be a veritable epidemic of repression to account for the lifetime discrepancies.

[–]ezetemp -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Rape is an intensely traumatic experience that you don't just forget.

Ah, you're thinking about rape-rape.

This is the NISVS study, which is about quote-rape-quote, determined by questions such as:

  • How many people have you had vaginal, oral, or anal sex with after they pressured you by wearing you down by repeatedly asking for sex, or showing they were unhappy?

  • When you were drunk, high, drugged, or passed out and unable to consent, how many people ever had vaginal sex with you?

(Note the use of "OR" passed out and unable to consent, essentially creating an utterly flawed question that conflates unambiguous rape with completely normal sex.)

So, while actual rape is a traumatic experience, I'm not sure that the experience of having sex with your girlfriend after she made puppy dog eyes at you might necessarily burn itself into your brain leaving you waking screaming and drenched every night. Not even if it was after a beer or two.

Unless sit down with your twelve closest feminist friends and work really hard on your victim complex so you won't feel left out; after all, you actually missed that tv show you'd been intending to watch because of her manipulative facial expression and there was the implicit threat of her asking again after the show, not to mention that your capacity for consenting was completely shot by being somewhat relaxed from that second beer.

If more men are reporting actual rape, then that's definitely good. If more men are reporting "rape", well, at least we're attaining parity, but I'm not convinced that trying to frame everything that happens in life as situations where you were somehow a victim is necessarily healthy.

[–]sdcrocks 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If you looked at the data tables, you would see that the NISVS tracks "coercive sex" separately from rape, but nice try. And I don't think it benefits anyone to baselessly dismiss a possible increase in male rapes to false claims.

[–]UltraLiberalWoman 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

The facts: female on male rape seems to be about 40% of all rape, and about 80% of the rape of men. The really funny thing is that they actually quote as their "source" the study that proves they are wrong.

Where's it say that?

[–]DavidByron2[S] 5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

What do you mean where? In the referenced report. The NISVS.

[–]DavidByron2[S] 4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Do you mean the pages of the report? page 18/19 for the overall rape numbers and page 25 for the proportion of male rape victims attacked by women (79.2%)

[–]InWadeTooDeep 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The Wikipedia sources, presumably.

[–]yoduh4077 5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Mostly, male victims try to hide, and deny their victimization, unlike the female victims

And yet the common feminist rhetoric is that "most rapes go unreported". So such is it?

[–]TheRealMouseRat 4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

The rest of the part about female on male rape seemed pretty good though, pointing out double standards in sentencing, social stigma around male victims, and explaining myths about that kind of rape.

[–]DavidByron2[S] 5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah but the example they gave of Cierra Ross -- I don't know if she was ever brought to trial. The only news stories i can find are of her arrest. Notice Wikipedia makes no mention of any sentence for her. Claims she was convicted but the offered source does not say that and is a story of her arrest. There other example in fact doesn't even say the name of the rapist, so what does that mean? That the name was never released and the person never even arrested?

So basically I don't know that any female rapist of a male victim has ever been convicted in the USA ever and this Wikipedia article says nothing about that. You'd think that such a case would be worth noting by someone.

Actually what got me looking (again-as i have in the past) was a TV story about a man being raped by a woman and going to trial. In the TV setting she gets off with a plea bargain for a slap on the wrist but I think realistically they would just never bother to try the case.

[–]expert02 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

The feminists have control of Wikipedia. That site doesn't uphold the truth, or care about bias. They care about what claims have the most number of reputable citations.

[–]DavidByron2[S] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Well this page uses Huffington Post as a reputable citation.

[–]samsc2 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

The reasoning all these studies drop this amazing amount of bullshit is because almost all sections of our government do not consider non-penetrative sex rape. With these statistics it's easy to lie about the amount of rape from female on male. When they include non-penetrative sex as rape the statistics jump up significantly to roughly 1-3 males, which matches with the 1-3 females. I actually got into a major argument with a group of feminists the other day about this and I showed them time after time where it says in the documentation that the stats do not include non-penetration. It's just sick to see so much misinformation that's spread about, as it just continues to falsely justify the actions of numerous evil people.

[–]DavidByron2[S] 3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

almost all sections of our government do not consider non-penetrative sex rape

Fortunately the only branch that counts -- the judiciary -- isn't one of them.

But yeah the feminists just deliberately hide male victims. They've done it for decades. those feminists you explained it too? The next day if they got into a conversation about the same topic would pretend they never heard of the idea before.

[–]PatriarchyDrone 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Interesting that in the section above they mention that

fewer than 1 in 10 male-male rapes are reported

yet, for female-male rapes, they quote reported rapes as if that's a reliable way to gauge actual numbers.

[–]GenderNeutralLanguag 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Hell no this is not the most blatant anti-male page. The section linked to is actually very fair and reasonable and properly follows wikipedia's neutral perspective rule well.

It properly cites the findings of the CDC study. I am not going to fault wiki editors for quoting the findings from the CDC, finding that do say 93.3% of perpetrators of male rape where male. I find this reasonable because it is only ONE sentence (though a long sentence) in the write up. The other 80% of the write up is about "Made to Penetrate" with 80% female rapists. It cites a legal case and the "Hot for Teacher" myth. While this could be better, it is far from being blatantly anti-male.

[–]DavidByron2[S] 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Well I said is it the most blatant lie that's anti-male, not is it the most anti-male page.

Weirdly you seem just fine with the lying bit.

[–]GenderNeutralLanguag 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

It's the source of the lying. The Wiki editor isn't lying, they are correctly and accurately citing the numbers from the study.

If you want to make the case that the CDC is lying about the rape number, I agree. I'm just not going to fault the Wiki editor for accepting the oft repeated lie.

[–]DavidByron2[S] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's not an oft repeated lie. In fact i don't know that I've seen anyone else quote that particular part of the report. It looks like someone deliberately went in there to find a source they knew would be lying.

And besides which there's discussion on it on the talk page. Wiki knows it is lying.

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