Anti-MRA but I agree : "Why I Kicked A Guy Off His Bike"

ParanoidAgnostic · 2015-03-04T22:45:30+00:00

She keeps repeating that there was a power imbalance. There clearly was but not in the direction she insists.

She was able to kick this kid off his bike and then keep him on the ground, repeatedly kicking him.

The power isn't automatically with the person who has the penis.

bluewit · 2015-03-04T20:54:32+00:00

[permanently deleted]

bluewit · 2015-03-04T22:02:27+00:00

"How you gonna compare me to ray rice?"

excessive force is excessive force; it doesn't matter that you aren't a gridiron player, if you are no longer defending against a reasonable threat & have gotten your "attacker" to the ground, pleading for you to stop as you kick them, you are now the attacker.

The point of comparing ray rice is ray rice was in a CLOSED space with someone NON sexually VIOLENTLY assaulting him, and anything he tried to do to "defend" himself would cause damage..

The level of "ensure he wouldn't get up and retaliate immediately" isn't considered acceptable from the man when he cannot run away & is being clearly directly violently attacked with intent to do harm... the sexual assault of being slapped on the ass is hardly comparable as a justification for needing to "subdue" an attacker, unless you expect/hope to have an arrest made... The anticipation of a further attack would seem reasonable cause to retaliate or at the least scream for help (though I know powerwalking can make it hard to shout, add anxiety & breathlessness, fine, BUT--)

Her own video has he saying she expected he was comin back "to fucking do it again", which to me indicated she was NOT anticipating something that would do HARM to her despite it being physical / assault...

Calling ray rice a pussy if we argue he had no other way to defend himself? .. hmm... no.

put a man in the situation she described & say a 19 y/o small guy was powerwalking alone unarmed & got slapped in the butt by a cyclist... biker comes back to do it again, guy kicks him off bike & kicks him beyond his pleas to stop: then people point out he should have not escalated the violence, certainly not to that degree. seems pretty reasonable on all counts...

BUT if you put a Ray Rice in that situation and instead of kicking too much there was simply one retaliatory hit the butt-slapper couldn't handle-- and those same folks were saying "shit man, he's ray rice, he had the same situation as the smaller guy, but ANY reasonable defense he could try to mount would very likely do at least as much damage as the excessive kicking could.." --wold saying that be essentially calling him "a huge fucking pussy" ?

Certainly not for his being too powerful to subdue someone without whatever he does being deemed excessive force....

-- So what was she trying to get at with the "pussy point"? --this is where it becomes telling:

She was trying to imply that for him as ray rice to see her the weaker smaller woman as a threat demanding his taking of action to defend himself makes him a pussy.

Let that sink in.

By that reasoning if say smaller women were sexually harassing larger men, there would never be sufficient cause for the men to take action, risking harm to these women. Because if only a huge pussy can't just man-up and take a violent malicious physical attack from a smaller woman in an enclosed space, what reasonable argument could a man have for using anything beyond words to try and fend off a smaller woman who sexually harasses and assaults him? In a big open space? Ray Rice would have no real options, would he?

Change the situation to assault with a deadly weapon: if she were in a concealed carry state, and had instead drawn her pistol and fired it in "self defense" she would likely have overstepped her legal rights(as people believe rice used excessive force), in needing to have a reasonable fear of harm (which rice had).

The argument could perhaps be made that she felt he would harm her psychologically, or feared what he might do next--But again, if we flip the genders:

Large man bikes up & slaps small man's rear, rides up again, small man draws on him... okay pretty reasonable-- but he fires? The narrative would see this as a hate crime because a butt-slap is DEFINITELY not enough for courts to believe he feared for his life or feared serious harm etc, where with a woman there was even a question...

--and further, a slap on the butt of a man by a woman is seen as harmless, and a large woman riding up to a small man after having slapped him in the behind already is seen as harmless, or at the least, is seen as a BIG stretch to justify him pulling a gun (if caught I could see the editorials "I bet he just wanted to rape her.." ), nevermind firing it.

(If we set it up as smaller woman & larger woman pulling a gun seems like either the gun-wielder had some past trauma or had a chip on her shoulder or was just looking for an excuse to harm anyone..--small man the same, but labeled homophobic & treated more severely)

But let's drop the gun and go back to the simple bike butt slap with reversed genders:

How do you see the courts and media & even yourself viewing this: The small 19yo man was slapped on the ass by the big athletic woman-- she circled back again, presumably to do it again-- he then kicked her off her bike & kept kicking her, even after she pleaded for him to stop.

Stop.

The pivotal issues here are that REGARDLESS of size disparity, or upper vs lower body strength, open spaces, closed spaces-- men are seen as potential threats, offensive for acts that when enacted by women are seen as harmless. Women are granted compassion and sympathy by rote, they are granted clemency for any situation in which harm, "feelings of violation" or even offence may befall them. Where men are instead expected to be hardened and not only accept potential supposedly in some way less-consequential-even-where-equal harms, but be immune from offence and feelings of violation.

What I am saying is the pivotal issue is she was able to claim fear--which men are barred from claiming in the first place of women lest they be deemed huge pussies-- because she is a woman and as she emphasized in a voice I read as bold italic caps "he was a ** MAN ** " .

And when it comes to assaults whether violent or sexual a man only typically seen as within reason to claim fear of harm as justification for what would otherwise be excessive force if it is against another man.-and even then, only if the man is larger or especially violent or such is it considered justified. A small man's "fear" of a second buttslap "or worse" leading to his kicking the larger man over & over? While I could see the media & popular opinion saying it was a reasonable retaliation I somehow imagine the powerwalker being seen as either "a violent" or "bigoted" teen who would not have a legal leg to stand on if brought up on charges. If the butt-slapper were a woman it'd be over for him.

I'm not saying "omg this woman is as bad as ray rice" nor am I saying "ray rice didn't do anything worse than her"-- I'm trying to say that society, media, law all have a bias in favor of women and against men in either case or any of the sex-binary hypotheticals offered (and for symmetry throw in the hypothetical of if ray rice genders were reversed one too, because the scrawny boyfriend would have woken up in handcuffs).

Any and all males are seen as threats or at least reasonable potential threats, especially to women, for being among the grouping "men". Typically women aren't treated as nor seen as presenting, or even generally possessing a capacity, nevermind an inclination to be"reasonable" or "genuine" threats, especially to men even when the women in question clearly are/were.

A distraction came up & I lost my train of thought. But I think I got out the main points I wanted to mention in reaction to this.

(edit: spellings)

ThePigmanAgain · 2015-03-05T00:17:12+00:00

Assuming she is telling the truth, he committed a very minor sexual assault, she committed assault and battery. One of these people belongs in jail, or at least on probation, and it ain't the idiot on the bike.

Wylanderuk · 2015-03-04T23:34:13+00:00

Logical? She went well beyond self defence and into assault territory at least by UK standards.

Knocking him off the bike? Yeah can't fault that, continuing to put the boot in after that point? That's beyond the pale.

notnotnotfred · 2015-03-04T20:09:04+00:00

I don't think it's even anti-MRA. It's pro-self-defense.

I just happen to think football players also have the right to self-defense.

jaybaird05 · 2015-03-04T21:05:02+00:00

For the most part what she was saying was solid. But to me, it doesn't matter if there is an imbalance of power. If someone is being attacked by somebody else. That person has the right to defend themselves.

Edit: Typo

feminist · 2015-03-04T22:04:48+00:00

Christ, skip to the end.

2 minute defending the video

2 minutes setting the timeline

Someone smacked her ass. I just stopped right there. This could have been a much shorter video.

I don't know what is being said, I am sure it can be condensed to two sentences. I think she's a very astute and intelligent commentator and I like hearing her comments on news that's happening, but I can't listen to this :/

2015-03-06T18:39:39+00:00

Knocking him off his bike? Fine. Kicking the shit out of a guy on the ground? Not fine.

You went well beyond Self-Defense by your own account.

2015-03-04T20:23:32+00:00

Can't stand her, hope she is abducted by ISIS.

2015-03-04T22:47:56+00:00

I actually respect Ana a lot. This video was ok.

Title	Anti-MRA but I agree : "Why I Kicked A Guy Off His Bike"
Author	jamminnummeruno
Upvotes	2
Comments	18
Date	March 4, 2015 7:37 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/2xxtqo/antimra_but_i_agree_why_i_kicked_a_guy_off_his/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/anti-mra-but-i-agree-why-i-kicked-a-guy-off-his.986746 https://theredarchive.com/post/986746

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