Clarifying a couple things about MGTOW...

Buzz_a_Tower · 2017-10-02T20:27:48+00:00

What's depressing is how men actually can love a woman unconditionally only to have her initiate a divorce and leave him paying alimony and child support for years on end not even being allowed to see his kids.

Also, regarding Chads, I saw somewhere an interesting quote. "There are no such things as Chads, just people that are more Chad than you." This shows the nature of women and how they are always looking for something better than what they currently have.

MGTOW, IMO at least, is about helping men wake up and realize that in the long run, women will only be a drain on your potential success and happiness.

StorkSlayer · 2017-10-02T20:51:01+00:00

doesn't this make you guys feel a bit sad or depressed?

It's just the tip of the iceberg for me. Life's a lot sadder and depressing than just realizations about hypergamy and evolution. I could go on and on about it, but it's beyond the scope of this post. The world is shit. Evolution is shit. Nature is shit. Life is shit.

Now, I guess this leaves me with a rather nihilistic view.

Nihilistic, no? I still place value on maximizing my pleasure while minimizing my suffering. I would say that there is no "meaning" or "purpose" to life, however. And it has definitely pushed me towards utilitarianism, specifically negative utilitarianism. Consequently, I am also an antinatalist.

macnallyraster · 2017-10-02T20:58:46+00:00

**Santa Claus doesn't exist.**

Oh, and the Elf On the Shelf isn't real either (nor is the Ether Bunny). It's all just a made up stories your parents and society play as a "trick/game" on children (and chuckle at how they believe it).

-- Now do you feel depressed about that? Nihilistic? Suicidal?

In the past, we had societal institutions, like patriarchy, marriage, religion and social norms and mechanisms that prevented female nature from running amok, is this also correct? But with the advent of modern day feminism and gynocentricity, those holds over female nature are no longer still in place, right?

-- This is essentially correct -- there certainly were/are other factors that also undermined the old system; per example things which removed/reduced/eliminated NATURAL limiting-consequences to promiscuity (everything from antibiotics & other medicines that mitigated the impact of STD's, as well as birth control pills and abortion on demand that altered the pregnancy impact); as well as various other modern technology (transport & communication, even household "automation") that both freed up time (idle hands) and made it possible for women (and men) to "hook up" with a far larger array of people (livving in a vastly enlarged "radius") beyond their immediate small town community.

-- Nor was the old system exactly "foolproof" nor entirely "effective" (far from it) -- but it also included aspects that prevented women from "abusing" men/and "utilizing/weaponizing" children against men -- per example the historical/traditional DEFAULT that children of a marriage were the MAIN/SOLE custodial responsibility of the husband/father. Even though female-initiated divorce wasn't legal, it often WAS physically possible for a women to unilaterally LEAVE her husband/family... she just did so "alone" and with little more than the clothes on her back -- she was not able to take/keep the children with her, nor was she able to USE them as leverage to obtain payments from her husband -- nor did she obtain HALF (nor any fraction of that) of the family home/assets/wealth.

-- It was the combination/compilation of ALL of those factors that lead to a (generally speaking) "stable" family/household structure -- it may not have been some perfect "romantically ideal" family or marriage -- but it was largely "workable"; and likewise it may not have entirely PREVENTED adultery (by the wife OR husband), but it DID function to largely limit that, prevent it from being blatant, open, and ridiculously prolific.

secret626 · 2017-10-02T21:36:48+00:00

At the beginning, YES, it made me feel depressed. Then the acceptance phase comes and you will feel more peaceful than ever before.

eja_cool8 · 2017-10-02T21:28:00+00:00

Yes, it is depressing and nihilistic.

But that's life. That's biology. That's evolution. The genes are selfish and they don't give a fuck about you.

I was quite depressed about this for a while and totally nihilistic. I had to pull myself up and realize I have to live life for myself and no one else...and I'm happier than I've ever been. Even if I'm struggling a bit or not at the state I want to be yet, mentally I'm loving life.

801735 · 2017-10-02T20:30:44+00:00

doesn't this make you guys feel a bit sad or depressed

For a while. But then it passes (or not, maybe you pass before it does, it's complicated) and you get back to important things in life.

macnallyraster · 2017-10-02T21:11:28+00:00

It's depressing at first but--i had this revelation walking out of a store into a clear evening--once you fully digest understanding female (and human) nature you are no longer bound by it. The primary goal of men and women is to procreate; if you don't believe this talk to anyone that you're thinking about not dating or marrying, they'll look at you like you're nuts and say something about how it's just "What you do".

Once you're free of this tie to your own nature the sky is the limit. If you like Rick and Morty it's in part what he means when he says "rise above, study science". I'd say the biggest problem in society today is that people can't get over their own nature, it's why people choose to believe in emotional arguments over factual one--the former is more appealing to their base nature. It really is a like observing the matrix for the first time, everything starts to click in terms of why people do certain things. Ever hear guys talk about how women are so confusing and can't be understood? Not the case. Once you understand that women will give in to their nature as easily as they turn on a faucet you begin to understand them.

ManIsWalking · 2017-10-02T23:51:38+00:00

Spot on actually. A woman's nature is to seek to constantly elevate her standing. She will often times use her current man as a spring board to higher social circles.

Is it depressing? It's no more depressing than knowing snakes are poisonous. It simply is what it is. The only negative effect I know of is that this awareness prevents you from taking any women seriously in regards to partnership. But in knowing this, would you still want to associate with a woman in the long term? And even if you did, at the very least you'll have a good idea as to how the relationship is going to play out and you could sometimes use that to your advantage.

Solstus22 · 2017-10-04T02:04:46+00:00

Short term it does make you depressed thinking about it, but long term it's not bad. It's just the way it is, like how we breathe. If anything, its honestly better to know how the world truly is instead of pretending its a fairy tale world and everybody is nice.

However MGTOW interpret AWALT/NAWALT (All Women or Not All Women Are Like That) I personally lean towards the EWALT, that enough women are like that to turn me away from relationships and marriage. TFM explained the concept of AWALT and alternately described it as All Women Have the Hypergamy Instinct. It's not bad, because naturally Women when having kids, they want the best for their future family. Hypergamy only became bad when it meant that women go after Men who are considered Chads (Physically attractive and Wealthy) for their own benefits instead of the family.

In terms of hypergamy itself, it had always existed. Even when human evolution was happening, it was simple interpreted as 'Natural Selection' and 'Social Darwinism'. It was just back then it wasn't as documented and people were forced to hide it from strict influences such as religion. It's only recently due to the advent of modern day feminism as you said that it became a very real thing that shocked people.

I hope this helps clarify your thoughts on MGTOW.

2017-10-02T21:20:51+00:00

Of course, evolution built various mechanisms within humans to produce even better offspring. It would exist in both males and females.

In the past, we had societal institutions, like patriarchy, marriage, religion and social norms and mechanisms that prevented female nature from running amok, is this also correct?

Patriarchy may have had its merits but doesn't dictatorship have its own merits -- preventing stupid people from running amok? There are stupid men and there are stupid women. There are monstrous men and there are monstrous women.

I've always been in a fight against my own biological imperatives. (But I've had to surrender to some of them. For my own convenience. And so even as I am a nihilist, I am also an anti-natalist. Being asexual was the greatest freedom I was born with.)

But those who aren't aware of their biological imperatives cannot even begin to struggle against them. They deceive themselves even as they deceive those around them.

Now, I guess this leaves me with a rather nihilistic view. If this is true and "all" women are like this, and...

"All women are like this" is just as weak as "all men are like this". For a misanthrope it would be -- "all humans are like this".

And laws which favor anyone based on gender are simply sexist. So many just blind to that. And for an anti-natalist like me, childbirthers are monsters for birthing someone without consent. I'm not pro-life or pro-choice.

2017-10-03T03:37:32+00:00

Men had been conditioned to know their value from the validations from woman- in either the providing capacity or to make her happy. MGTOW is all about decoupling from this ingrained instinct and put his own brain his master.

So beyond the depression phase, beyond the nihilist phase, if he keeps sustaining with the pain of living alone, he will eventually get to love himself while not depending on woman for anything.

You can witness this here when a few men get tired of reading about women and put up posts like ''thank you, mgtow, i am leaving you, you helped me a lot''.

When the shaming of masturbation or hiring a hooker doesn't work on a man, what else can, you think?

LeftAndRed · 2017-10-03T03:50:24+00:00

You got it mostly right. “Are essentially whores and will be unfaithful” part is wrong. They are wired to be attracted to an alpha no matter who they are with and can be “swept off her feet” or “caught up in the moment.” But this doesn’t make them whores!

MGTOW = sexual nihilism with best solution to give up. TRP = sexual nihilism with best solution is to hack the rules of the game.

It’s not that women are whores and malicious, it’s just their nature to allow themselves to be “taken” under the right circumstances. MRP thinks you can manage this.

Point is, the conclusion is just that women are not innocent but are predatory by nature. No one blames the flame for burning them. Smart men just stay away from flames or use lots of preparation and protection.

Morb357 · 2017-10-03T03:51:14+00:00

Depressing, sure but nothing can be done about it except walking away and allowing women and their cucks to their own devices. I contributed nothing to the downfall of mankind so I know I am righteous.

Basically, let it all burn and let them suffer which they will once Islam or Communism takes over. I'm on my way out anyhow.

Setari · 2017-10-03T03:53:35+00:00

this make you guys feel a bit sad or depressed?

Sure, it did it in the beginning. When I realized that there's actually nobody out there for me, which is what the current rhetoric deviates from saying (which is the whole "There's a SOULMATE out there for everyone, no matter what!" crap) and I felt pretty empty about it. But as time went on and I lived on my own and rebuilt my "psyche" if you will, from being shattered due to seeing a woman just move on with no moral repercussions in her mind, it becomes known that a man needs nobody to support him but himself, and only himself.

And if you've lost yourself, you better find it before you can go anywhere in life. And that's what I had to do, because I had lost my sense of self in my relationshit.

macnallyraster · 2017-10-03T05:38:23+00:00

You lose Chad status pretty quick when you get branded, lose the money, or lose the bod. Just as there's a wall for women, Chad is a state that comes and goes.

Yashugan00 · 2017-10-03T07:59:25+00:00

One word: more It's never enough, they always want more no matter how good a deal they get

Chill-BL · 2017-10-03T16:03:09+00:00

I agree, difference is female nature is set loose. If we would have let male nature loose. for instance: yeah be fucking aggressive, fucking rape that bitch, pillage and build, get stronger, the world is male! try put that on your facebook. you'd get instantly hated for it. now a girl promoting her sexuality, the bunch of guys she fucks over, the resources she is claiming. she'll get a hooray from the crowd... no hoorays for men.

Chill-BL · 2017-10-03T16:03:12+00:00

I agree, difference is female nature is set loose. If we would have let male nature loose. for instance: yeah be fucking aggressive, fucking rape that bitch, pillage and build, get stronger, the world is male! try put that on your facebook. you'd get instantly hated for it. now a girl promoting her sexuality, the bunch of guys she fucks over, the resources she is claiming. she'll get a hooray from the crowd... no hoorays for men.

logophiliac · 2017-10-04T21:40:31+00:00

It's only depressing if you stay in the game.

BTW, the "patriarchy" is a feminazi myth.

Title	Clarifying a couple things about MGTOW...
Author	macnallyraster
Upvotes	14
Comments	73
Date	October 2, 2017 8:17 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MGTOW
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MGTOW/comments/73veh2/clarifying_a_couple_things_about_mgtow/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MGTOW/clarifying-a-couple-things-about-mgtow.550929 https://theredarchive.com/post/550929

Comments

Santa Claus doesn't exist.

-- Now do you feel depressed about that? Nihilistic? Suicidal?

**Santa Claus doesn't exist.**