Honest question for MGTOW Men

silly_birb · 2020-05-14T02:31:45+00:00

They're lying.

And they are a tiny minority anyway. 53% of marriages end in divorce. Most of the rest are miserable, although they put on a good face for the public.

nakedput1m · 2020-05-14T02:28:16+00:00

yes, those relationships do exist. MGTOW is more about risk aversion. Sure you can take a risk and enter into a relationship. However, MGTOW do not want to pay the consequences (child support,alimony, asset division, emotion turmoil, legal/justice issues). The consequences are not worth the benefits a possible happy relationship.

Maximum_Afternoon · 2020-05-14T03:25:42+00:00

"How do you account for all the people who go to Vegas and leave as millionaires?"

MGTOW doesn't say it doesn't happen, it says odds are too bad to bother playing.

Wide-Brick · 2020-05-14T02:38:14+00:00

Are you serious?!?!? I love it when an OBVIOUSLY great guy/father/husband gets accused of a henious act... EVERYONE realizes it's B.S. but there's always a group of morons stating: you don't know what goes on behind closed doors. Well, I guess since the perspective is different with this question, it's time I become the moron. YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT GOES ON BEHIND CLOSED DOORS. Most "happily" married men are living lives of quiet desperation. For every ONE happy couple you'll point out, I'll counter with 20 men just going along to get along. Smiling that fake smile just for an OUNCE of peace. I've spoken with several men.... different ages, different races, different socioeconomic classes that all reveal the same thing: If he had it to do over again he would NOT get married. NOT because he wants some "hot, young piece of tail". Nope...all he wants is peace. So he has to negotiate, bargain, compromise and often BEG to get peace in his own home. See...there comes a point when sex is no longer an effective method of control...even during a marriage because some guys will morph into asexuality. It's the constant drama, nagging, complaining that becomes the most effective weapon.
I one time sat with a total stranger at a bar... watched as tears welled up in his eyes because he didn't want to go home.
Before you guys call him a SIMP/CUCK or whatever clever insult you can think of, this man was broken. I offered to get him a hotel room but he said that would cause more trouble. He was stuck with a witch. She was abusing him emotionally and had him by the balls financially. I know it doesn't always go to that extreme, but I can tell the average married man isn't that far from it.
So....NO. You don't see these married couples...you see their Representatives to the world. And of COURSE she's miserable too because no matter what she does she's justified and he's always the villain - regardless of the facts.

So NAWALT is your question. AWALT is my response.

JustPissYaself · 2020-05-14T02:28:57+00:00

I agree that good relationships can exist but not for me, i simply can not be happy in a relationship as my freedom is always gonna be comprimised. Soo, instead i save women from my selfishness by not dating them.

DangZagnut · 2020-05-14T02:29:04+00:00

Men of MGTOW: How do you account for all the men in happy, healthy relationships where both partners love and respect each other? They do exist, I've seen them.

They're all happy until they are not. Wedding day seems pretty happy. Divorce day does not.

It's immaterial, there's simply no benefit to marriage, and it is, at best, a life liability.

Are you saying that healthy relationships, however rare, can exist for some people, but not for you?

They can and do. I've never had an unhappy relationship. My magic trick is that they don't last longer than 6 months, and I sure as hell don't marry them.

or do you think it is not possible to have a happy, healthy relationship with a female?

For short periods of time, that's where my method wins, and married people's doesn't.

79johnsmith · 2020-05-14T03:04:19+00:00

AWALT, especially after the wedding cake is cut. Give a married man enough drink to speak honestly and he'll tell you marriage is the worst thing to happen to the relationship.

Openly the couple maintains a facade of a content and happily married man - behind the scenes, perpetual nagging, lack of sex, she keeps the balls in the jar, you are always wrong, she is always right, apologise in order to keep the peace, report to her on everything, no freedom to pursue hobbies nor make any decision, not even to blank out and do nothing, etc.

Take it from the divorced men here. Every married man if he is truly honest, has felt like offing himself at some point during the marriage.

I'll leave you with this masterpiece by /u/PrinceRaj53>>

Marriage is the shittiest deal for men, even beyond the laws.

Sit down and make your notes adults.

Marriage was always a shitty deal no matter what age it was (whether it's modern times or ancient). It was, is, and will always be the shittiest thing mankind has ever created for men, and it's a blessing in disguise for women. Simple as that.

A random fact about marriage :

This thing called marriage/LTR is actually built on lies. Either the women has to lie to her boyfriend/husband/fiance about her love for him(when in reality it's never about love) or the man has to lie to himself about how valuable he is to stay with the girl, which is basically delaying the inevitable by refusing to accept reality and not leaving his safe space, like a mouse closing his eyes thinking the cat also wont be able to see him if he closes his eyes.

Why? Because women are women (insert the psychological terms related to female nature, with briffault's law). So she will always believe that she deserves a man who is far more valuable then herself & her current man(a woman's hypergamy is never satisfied). So unless the high tier man lies to himself about his real value and settles or she lies to her equal man about her attraction towards him which does not exist in reality, she cannot have a good betabux relationship, because keeping the beta as a beta bitch while making him clueless and common senseless is important so that he won't notice the actual reality (obviously, if he notices that, he wont be in that relationship).

The only problem with lies is they get harder and harder to maintain with time. Unlike women, men are not better liers and manipulators. You as a man can only lie to yourself up to a point when your logical side will start to rebel against your lies and you wont be able to convince yourself any further (this phase comes to every married man's life and serves as a wake up call, which most married men ignore, unfortunately).

We redpill/mgtow guys don't only say "yo bro, don't marry, stay single" because of the possible divorce rape, law issues or "marriage is a bad deal in the modern times". Although these reasons are part of the "why" , sure, but most people miss the most important aspect of the "why" which is beyond the usual reasons.

That part is : the "female evolutionary nature" which is inside each and every woman which is biological, and undeniable.

And the biggest truth?

Marriage, it is a poor foundation on which men try to operate a relationship , feeling (men don't think while in a relationship, they feel, and that's where everything starts going downhill) that "everything will be alright because "My cousin's husband and my cousin are also married and they are doing great"/"my mom married my dad and they are doing great"/"some random woman and man got married and they are doing great". What they miss here is that there is a fine line between "it seems they are doing great" and "they are actually very happy, specially the husband".

Because the average joe tend to measure the relationship's success by seeing how happy and content the woman is (this applies specifically to india) , while completely ignoring the man and not observing him at all.

There is always a hidden story in a marriage that the man does not want others to know, because he needs to show off to others about "how happy I am" while his reality is entirely different.

Now, why do men ignore the the obvious red flags? Simple, its his cousin/mom/friend/family member or a woman they are seeing, which means family. And as we all know, men tend to get defensive when it comes to family and sensitive topics associated with the woman they are seeing. So they spout the same bs again and again : "no no she is great, I know her", "she will neeeeever be like that, I am sure", and the best cliche of 2019 : "Not All Women Are Like That Because Stacy and Linda are Not Like That".

I wish I could have a dollar everytime someone says these kind of lines.

Next. Why is marriage in general is a shitty idea to begin with?

Because, you as a man, are essentially promising a woman "I will be with you forever" giving her the "gf/fiance/wife" position in your life just like that without her actually earning that position , while she is giving/laying out conditions for you to operate in, just like a one sided business contract where someone willingly gives in without thinking twice based on his feelings .

You are not saying to the woman "I will only stick with you if you behave well, stay loyal, treat me well or if only you fulfill my conditions first"(although these things mean jack shit anyways, she will be the coin flip you didn't want her to be the moment she wants to), you are saying none of that. You're just saying to the woman that "I have no clue how you'll behave in future but I'll be with you forever anyway because I am that insecure that you wont stay with me otherwise".

The psychological damage that this does to your bargaining position is catastrophic. She has almost no incentive to behave, or prove her worth to you anymore because you've given up all your cards to get exclusive access to hers. Which by default makes you low value in her eyes.

"If this guy is stupid enough to marry me, he is not a high value at all" this is a female hamster wheel.

It's almost comical how quickly a women's behavior shifts once she's instilled with this knowledge, it's an emotional conquest for her. Nothing breeds worse behavior than a woman who knows she has your unwavering emotional commitment.

In short, marriage is just a dumb idea to limit a man and to force him to be inside a box all the time by limiting his access to outside. You are literally wasting your time to build something that can be broken at any time. Every second a man wastes on a woman in a relationship, is a second he loses and thus never got that second for himself.

This, is why we all say marriage is the worst deal mankind ever created, because it is nothing but a one sided losing contract for you,the man; where the woman wins regardless of whatever she does. And even if they don't win, its still a lousy deal because there is nothing in a relationship for men except ego satisfaction, because women and sex are meant to be for entertainment, not to build a relationship with. Women are not suitable for long term relationship, as except ego satisfaction and "something is better than nothing", they do not offer anything else. Its that simple.

Don't know why people complicate it so much.

Women are just not suitable for long term relationships. You as a man are just wasting your most valuable asset "commitment" while getting punished for doing so.

Each and every relationship with women should have zero investments (emotional, financial, psychological etc) from the man's side. And it should come with an expiry date/time of 4-6 months, that too without cohabitation. Enjoy the sex while it lasts, and get out when it becomes incompatible. Plain and simple, see?

Like my dad says, "it's great when it's simple."

Don't pay for things you can't own or rent, otherwise they will end up owning you afterwards.

Remember that.

SagenTheGOd · 2020-05-14T02:24:08+00:00

How long before the happiness bubble bursts. Do you know these couples personally or on social media ? I don't believe what others say but look at their actions and it tells me everything.

ElectricalTradition8 · 2020-05-14T02:41:34+00:00

I imagine there is a fair amount of screaming and yelling behind closed doors. Every couple I know screams, at least the woman does. Their kids scream. Massive power struggles between any 2 people interacting all the time.

CertainCrow1 · 2020-05-14T03:12:00+00:00

Where are these men? Id say if you make such claims burden of proof is in you.. but not practical on reddit. You'd have something anecdotal and so would I.

See I used to think all these couples were happy.. although I still knew half would end in divorce. Then I got married and had friends getting married. By all appearances we prob looked happy but we weren't... We'd never say we weren't. I thought other couples were happy . But anytime I got to know them more they weren't really. Best case they made it work... heck I remember my Bible study group as my marriage broke down my ex decided to open up to these two couples we meet with regularly .. they were 'Godly' people.

They invited us over to try and have discussion and be open about things. Turns out one if the couples almost divorced and I couldn't believe how naggy and hard to please one came across.. poor guy was having suicidal thoughts . Other wife seemed a handful and they had their issues too. I always thought my parents had a pretty healthy marriage but they weren't exactly in bliss either. They ended up doing their own thing during the day. Of course everyone seems happy for a few years but then it's tolerance at best in a lot of cases.. or they stay together until kids get older. The illusion of a happily married couple never holds up once you get close to them. If there are happy couples and it actually lasts the test of time it's the exception not the norm.

Also you never asked about guys who don't get married. See this isn't a choice between being married and having a chance to be happy or not being married and being miserable. If you know some married people are happy surely you know single people that are happy. I don't know about the first but I sure as heck have seen the single people who are happy and I know those ones aren't putting on a show. In my estimation your chances of being happy, doing what you want when you want, and maintaining a multitude of healthy relationships is higher when you're single. It's not that impossible to be happy in either boat.. but your best bet is as a single guy when the odds are against marriage.

2020-05-14T02:42:52+00:00

How do you account for all the men

You say this as if they comprise the majority. They don't - not even close. Nearly 60% of all marriages end in divorce, and that's just the ones that were lucky enough to have an unhappy relationship end.

A lot of men are also happy in those relationships because they dumb and oblivious.

A lot of other men are lieing to themselves and/or others about being happy in the relationship.

Given all that. The number of marriages where the man is in a happy and healthy relationship is maybe 2% of all marriages.

DannyNog556 · 2020-05-14T02:54:54+00:00

They’re delusional, that’s how. What you described only exist in fairytales. I guarantee you that the moment the male falls on hard times like losing a job or gets sick the female will bail out in the blink of an eye. GUARANTEED.

The_2nd_Bob · 2020-05-14T04:28:18+00:00

It's about playing the odds... gambling. With marriage/divorce/infidelity stats as they are, why would you gamble with it? 20% of young people are discovering that Dad, isn't their Dad.

TruMaleFeminist · 2020-05-14T05:35:40+00:00

I've also seen people manhandle snakes without being bitten, but I will never handle a snake. I'll watch it behind glass but that's it.

MGMOWNow1978 · 2020-05-14T06:29:03+00:00

99% are lying. My 2 best friends have been married for about 15 years, more or less happily I thought (to different women, not each other).

This year I have found out they have been miserable for years, and both are on the brink of divorce, one through her infidelity and the other because “she isn’t feeling it any more”.

user_miki · 2020-05-14T07:02:06+00:00

Many " happy couples" put out a fake image a facade for outside viewers even for close friends.They post happy pictures on Facebook or Instagram for friends to see, to find out after awhile she wants to divorce , she was not happy for many many years and he was abusive.

How do you reconcile that with what you see?

tacticalinfernape · 2020-05-14T07:24:04+00:00

stockholm syndrome . sorry to break it to you but there are no healthy marriages thing. stop living in your bubble.

PrestigiousGreen3 · 2020-05-14T09:39:44+00:00

some relationships I'm aware of it's a matter of not only affordability but what her true intentions are. Regardless of the matter it's purely brifaults law (law of nature). Basically she's only around so long as the money is. Women need resources for families and even the good ones are being selective at best. Doesn't make them neccesarily evil just not worth the lot of our time energy or effort

2020-05-14T10:35:35+00:00

I used to think my grandparents had a relationship like that. Hahaha! How naive I was. They can barely stand each other.

kriskros18 · 2020-05-14T13:06:42+00:00

They are more common in older generations. But 21 cen is a different beast.

BP: (denial) won’t happen to me. MGTOW: why risk?

The more you gamble, the better your chances. Also, the House always wins.

BlackPillPusher · 2020-05-14T13:36:11+00:00

Having a "healthy" relationship, whatever that even means doesn't negate the dangers of a false accusations, monkey branching/baby daddy drama and common law marriage while providing minor rewards at best, mostly external validation, which MGTOW men do not need as internal validation is one of the requirements for self ownership.

But that's what most MGTOW will tell you, for me personally, it's Briffault's law, relationships for men is a constant stream of shit tests and gimmes that are meant to extract as much triple P benefits from the man in question as possible, and even if the man succeeds at providing these benefits there is absolutely no guarantee of the female associating with him further down the line, it's a losing game and a bad investment of time and resources for men, and sure, every relationship has a honeymoon phase, it's only a matter of time before it's over.

PrudentAnalyst2 · 2020-05-14T18:11:08+00:00

Not calling you a liar, but provide some evidence of your claim. After all, with the statistics regarding divorce dead bedrooms, unhappiness in marriages, cheating, and on and on and on, how do you account for what can either be considered their rarity of what you described? You posed the question as though there's some normalcy to the claim, and yet if anything what you describe is aberrant and incredibly rare to almost nonexistent. I mean I'm sure there are people who manage to buy a Plymouth Volare in 1977 and it wasn't a lemon, so how do you account for those rare welbuilt machines when 99% of the rest of them were junkers?

m1ghty_b4g · 2020-05-14T18:44:55+00:00

Let's say marriage is like Russian Roulette but in this case the gun is full 6 loaded and the only thing can save you is the revolver stop working.

General_Fear · 2020-05-15T02:21:40+00:00

Thru the process of elimination you will get to the worst doctor in America. And the scary thing someone has an appointment with him on Monday.

Same can be said about marriage. Thru the process of elimination you will eventually find the perfect story book marriage. But for each those successful marriages, you will find hundreds, thousands, millions of men who regretted every getting married.

An intelligent man learns from his mistakes. The wise man learns from the mistakes of others. MGTOWs are wise men who have examined the facts and have come to one inescapable conclusion. You have a better chance winning Russian roulette than winning at marriage.

NAILmg42 · 2020-05-14T10:04:48+00:00

Reach into your pocket and get coin. Flip it. That is the divorce rate, and women do the flipping. Oh and you always wrong as a man.

Second marriages have 60% divorce rate and third 70% divorce rate. Thus most men die alone, but broke.

Now us mgtow who cracked the system have a question for you;

You think for first marriages, that happy part you see are 1) actually happy 2) will remain happy 3) are actually the 50% that stay together 4) are happy men 5) are happier with said person then compared to average mgtow?

No marriage is prison for men. Why do you think most women want it? Because most men wish to be slaves and do no work on themselves.

Oh by the way, you calculate marriages that make it to 30 years, and it's literally 80% failure rate, and this has been prior to the accelerated thottery forms we have seen this year with Only Fans....

Marriage is for stupid people not people that can be happy

Title	Honest question for MGTOW Men
Author	superfusion1
Upvotes	3
Comments	45
Date	May 14, 2020 2:16 AM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MGTOW
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MGTOW/comments/gjdazi/honest_question_for_mgtow_men/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MGTOW/honest-question-for-mgtow-men.664430 https://theredarchive.com/post/664430

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