Seeking Advice From MGTOW

bobsmitharmour · 2014-11-16T19:14:04+00:00

if ur only 18 then, try and fuck lots of women. Pay prostitutes if u have to. Once u get it out of ur system, u realise sex isn't that magical which the media and movies try and portray. After that, stop giving a shit about women.

Riktrat · 2014-11-17T06:04:57+00:00

This is from /u/whisper and it sums up the situation which leads lots of us here.

Well, then, since it is not immediately obvious, allow me to explain.

Women have much more power in relationships than men do. Not just by social convention (which, believe me, is power enough), not just because others are more sympathetic to their side of any story (which, believe me, is also more than power enough), but via the full weight and majesty of the law.

Let us construct, in our heads, a hypothetical scenario. I shall use you and I as examples, just give some sense of the impact of these events on people's lives.

Let us suppose that we meet, by chance, in some gathering place in some city where, at some time in the future, we both reside. I am tall, handsome, muscular, well-dressed, and confident; you are pretty, intelligent, charming, and you get my jokes.

Nature takes its course.

About a year later, you decide that I am a good catch, the best of your available options, and you would like to be married. You drop hints, but I demur. I like you well enough, but you want children and I do not. Not to mention that I am still considering my options and am unready to enter into any sort of lifelong pact.

(This is the branch point. This is where we tell the story of what you could legally do, were you so inclined.)

You simply stop taking your birth control pills, without a word to me. This is not a crime, because legally, I have no right to know. They are your pills, and it is your body.

After a couple of attempts which I did not know were attempts, you become pregnant. You may have attempted with other men as well. Let's leave that matter unresolved for the moment.

You do not tell me until you start to show. This is also perfectly legal.

Once I figure things out, I offer to pay for half the termination procedure. You decline to undergo one. This, too, is legal. The law allows you the "right to choose". I, however, have no such right.

I do a little snooping, and discover unused quantities of birth control pills in the bathroom cabinet. Since they come in those neatly dated little wheel-things, I am easily able to deduce the exactly day you stopped. I terminate our sexual relationship post-haste.

You are angry and accuse me of putting you in this delicate situation and then abandoning you. I demur, arguing that you placed yourself in this situation. Negotiations deteriorate.

I demand a paternity test, not feeling very trusting at this point. You refuse. You can do that. You have the legal right, it's your body, I cannot force you to undergo amniocentesis.

You give birth to a daughter, and name her Zoe. I am named on the birth certificate as the father, simply because mine was the name you gave when they asked. I was not even there.

Now, I have refused to marry you. I still have that right, in most situations. (Look up "common-law" marriage, a law that allows a woman to force a man to marry her.)

So you legally demand that I provide you with the benefits of marriage anyway, to wit, a large portion of my income. You have the legal right to do this. It's called "child support".

In court, I demand a paternity test, but am denied one. You see, because I offered to pay for an abortion, I acknowledged the child as mine. And my name is on the certificate. And, most important of all, the very court that is ruling on the matter receives a cut of all child support payments. (Bet you didn't know that, did you?)

Legally, the money is for Zoe, but the checks come to you, in your name. You can spend them however you like, with no oversight whatsoever.

I'm not even sure Zoe is mine.

Now I'm in a bad situation. But the story does not end here.

The tanking economy causes budget cuts, and my cushy job as an engineer at a major defense contractor is lost. The only thing thing I can find to replace it is a job hawking cell-phones in one of those mall kiosks. This is not, however, grounds for reducing my child-support payments. The initial amount of them was determined by my income at the time, but legally, they are a right belonging to Zoe, and determined by Zoe's need, so my income is not a factor.

Now I cannot pay. I am a "deadbeat dad", according to society. And the newspaper my photo is published in. And the website my picture is posted on.

My failure to pay tanks my credit rating, too, with all its attendant woes.

The economy loosens up a bit, and I reapply to my old firm. They're keen to hire me, but they can't. With a record of delinquent child support payments, I cannot pass the background check. Now my career is blighted, too.

Many years have passed at this point, and I'm in deep trouble. Broke, no career prospects, poor credit, spotty criminal record (failure to pay child support is a misdemeanor in some jurisdictions), depressed, no means or confidence to attract another woman even if I could ever trust one again.

But the story doesn't end here.

Desperate, I manage to find some pretext to visit you, and I steal some of Zoe's hair from her hairbrush in the bathroom. I pay for a lab test out of my meager remaining resources.

Zoe isn't mine.

I take you to court, and lose. Yes, lose. Because I had already been paying child support, I am the publicly acknowledged father. (If you do not believe this could possibly happen, I sympathize. It's crazy. But google "joseph michael ocasio" and prepare to be shocked.)

Okay, end of scenario.

Look where we are. My life is indeed ruined. At no point did I have any power to stop it (except by remaining celibate my entire life). At every point, what you did, you had the legal right to do. You didn't have to "get away" with anything. You could write a book about it, and nothing would change, because it was all legal.

The only thing protecting most men from this fate is nothing but women's lack of inclination to do this. They are entirely in her power.

Would you accept being in an 1700's-style marriage, where your husband owned everything, and had the legal right to beat you, simply because he was a "nice guy and wouldn't do that"?

That is precisely what men are being asked, no, expected, to accept.

Is it any wonder we are distrustful and suspicious to the point of paranoia? It's our only defense. The law will not protect us. The law is against us, straight down the line.

Think about it. Try to imagine how that might feel.

tl;dr: When a man rapes a woman, it is against the law. When a woman rapes a man, the law is the instrument she uses.

Iron-willing · 2014-11-16T19:13:32+00:00

read this

I don't really agree with TRP on everything either, but this is one of the smartest things you can do. If you just read/follow 1-5 and skip the end the you will still be an awesome person that people will gravitate towards and look to for leadership.

If I could give my 18 year old self advice (I'm 32) it would be to go to college to network and get experiences rather than just going through the motions to get the piece of paper. I dated the same girl for 6 years through college, went to college to make good grades, and spent most of my free time hanging out with the same 6 people. As a result, I have 4 people that I still talk to on a regular basis from my 5 years in college (out of 25,000 student body). Organize yourself. Use a calender, keep track of all your finances, track your calories (if that's an issue), track your workouts, and track your goals. If I had actually done that back then, the past 15 years would have been much better

phengineer · 2014-11-17T01:40:32+00:00

I'm 24. Basically just live your life they way you want to. Don't let women/the media dictate what you have to do. Find what you love and invest time and effort into that. For some guys, the thing they love doing is sleeping with women; for most others, there's something else. I'm kind of a "soft MGTOW" in the sense that I'm actually in a relationship. But at the same time, my decision to do that was based on my own terms.

s0briquet · 2014-11-18T23:01:21+00:00

Since you're here, and you already know the basis of MGTOW, I won't repeat those points that others are making.

Here's my advice:

Pick a hobby, an intellectual pursuit, and a job/career path, and give all three of them every god damn thing you've got for the next 5 years*. Sleep, eat, and breathe those three things, and don't lose sight of them. No distractions no matter what. Go after them like a madman.

After that, poke your head up and take a look around. That time from 18-23 is a wild fucking ride, man. It was my experience that people didn't start taking me seriously as a man until I hit about 25, so if you can stay focused that long, you'll have at least some area of your life to pursue for the following 10 years.

** I think that if "education" is in your plan, then it should be a part-time gig, as 'an education' hasn't been paying-out the ROI as it has in the past.

An example of a hobby: Play an instrument An example of an intellectual pursuit: Philosophy An example of a job/career path: Electrician

edit: I hold the opinion that TRP isn't really healthy as a lifestyle. It basically encourages people to get in the mindset of playing the game, which is a complete waste of time. You only get so many years on this planet, so you should maximise your potential. I don't mean that you should become a recluse, or start intentionally avoiding women (or sex -they've both got their good points), but rather focus on your future, and don't build your vision of a future around a woman/women.

2014-11-16T19:59:38+00:00

i would say to myself: you are right, girls are bad. there are a lot of white knights who are bad, too. buy better parts for your computer, and go on bicycle riding adventures.

Vendetta36 · 2014-11-17T14:58:06+00:00

I'm 28 years old. I've also gravitated between TRP and mgtow. Here's the advice I will give you:

Don't be afraid to go after what you want. Connect with people, explore your interests. Also, learn how to manage and save money. Saving money at a young age will pay off huge dividends later on, trust me. Most importantly, discover what's important to you and never let anyone, especially women, take that away from you.

If you compromise your values, you won't be truly happy.

GomezdaSol · 2014-11-17T16:11:09+00:00

If I did this, I'd disappear in a cloud of logic the minute I was seen by my former self, so instead I'll give you the advice I would like to have given myself.

Get off the internet and talk to men in your life, men in your community, and men in your social spheres. While it's lovely to think I'm changing the world in small degrees here, actually building a role for myself and by proxy men in the real world is what has had the greatest impact on my life.

I'll add, protect your emotions from others unless you want to explore them. There is a huge difference between experiencing an emotion and using an emotion as information. It is akin to seeing a car careering toward you and hoping it will miss vs. deciding to move out of it's path. When someone or something challenges your belief system, you experience an emotion such as surprise when a joke breaks the pattern of expected behaviour. If you use these emotions to trigger introspection, you can test your belief systems for contradictions or remodel them to accommodate new information.

Use these two pieces of advice to inform the other. The men in your community are those who you stand shoulder to shoulder with, not I or anyone here. We can provide you with alternative explanations of beliefs for such times as your continued emotional responses demand your attention; use this resource to account for the discrepancies, take it back to your community, discus the alternatives and test out the changes if you make any. Talk to the anomalies within your society, the homeless, bachelors, divorcees, priests, salary men, bullies, geeks, drunkards, soldiers, and criminals, and find out what they believe - and if they share the same beliefs as you, know that your life could follow the same path. Then decide for yourself whether you are comfortable with this possibility and would hold other men to your standard.

tl:dr version: 'See' other men

cucumberadoption · 2014-11-19T13:42:26+00:00

You are so not gonna like this advice, but I wish I could have told my 18 year old self to stop hating the oposite gender. I used to generalize them all and it brought me nothing but pain. At the time I didnt understand that you can train yourself to not be taken advantage of without being an asshole. (Most mgtoe and trp "strategies" usually involve being some kind of an asshole because you need a "submissive female") but following this advice gave me nothing but pain.

I scared off potential friendships and relatiponships, started trouble with female bosses and coworkers at work for years before I realized my "clever ways" (PUA+TRP theory++) were actually being a douchebag. It was bad when i realized it wasnt the world, but I, myself, who was keeping myself down..

drkstrs · 2014-11-23T01:27:26+00:00

My advice would simply be not to envy any man or woman, or place them above yourself. As Joseph Campbell said the privilege of a lifetime is being who you are. Learn from people, but don't idealize them. All are flawed or limited in some way, merely human. If you feel like you are all alone out in deep water, you're probably going the right way. Following the crowd will never take you further than the crowd goes. Take big risks, and be willing to go on impractical adventures in order to realize your own powers and inspirations. Oh, stay in shape, and learn some skills that are yours and yours alone. Then even when things don't work out those things will sustain a sense of joy and pride which can never be taken away. Travel...because the journeys are also yours forever and beyond price.

Title	Seeking Advice From MGTOW
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	8
Comments	13
Date	November 16, 2014 5:53 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MGTOW
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MGTOW/comments/2mhaln/seeking_advice_from_mgtow/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MGTOW/seeking-advice-from-mgtow.631071 https://theredarchive.com/post/631071

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