An Honest Question

Reddit1984Censorship · 2021-07-15T15:17:17+00:00

We go against their narrative so they smear us feminism currently rules society.

Nevek_Green · 2021-07-15T16:41:44+00:00

Alright, you probably won't hear this elsewhere so here is the truth most people don't want to talk about. The majority of the opponents to MGTOW have no argument, no position, no rationale for their position. They're following the Zeitgeist to avoid being socially excumunicated. MGTOW either consciously or sub consciously scares them because it is a rejection of the social approval, but we are not dying from being shunned by the collective. Instead we are laughing at them.

Why is this? Well it's because most people are not sentient psychologically speaking. Most people will attest they are, but when tested for sentience (self awareness) they fail. Most people do not have linguistical thoughts, aka an internal monolog. Many people refuse to go for long term gratification and operate on short term logic. I say refuse as every person has the part of the brain that recognizes long term consequences, threats, and reactions. These people do not use it for that and instead use it to create excuses.

If you've heard of cheaters getting busted and freezing up for a few seconds as the horror of what they've done dawns on them. That's because the horror of what they've done, the consequences, the inflected pain, everything has in that moment dawned on them and they know they cannot get away from the consequences. "How can they not have seen this coming?" because they're lesser creatures in the literal sense. BTW this doesn't know gender, nationality, or culture. All we can do is reward good behavior and punish these behaviors. We in the west do the opposite. We raise our children to be narcasists and that is why two generations are now considered lost generations (millenials and Gen Z).

What these people operate on is baser instict. An innate fear of social rejection compels them to stay the course until the course tells them otherwise. Ever notice a hobby you enjoy being mocked then becoming mainstream? You've likely witnessed the cognative disonance that goes along with this. "Marvel is for losers," to "Marvel is the best," to "lol you still like Marvel."

Middle end people will stay in line because they do not want to risk social austricision. This allows a few people to essentially take everyone hostage by controlling the zeitgeist. This is easily combated by ignoring them and mocking them. Mockery sinks deep and human psychologically do not like looking foolish.

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Now if you want an actual counter argument to the MGTOW philosophy I'll give you one. For civilization to function there needs to be social unity. The family unit is the cornerstone of this unity, by going MGTOW you are undermining the fabric of society and it will eventually rip a tipping point and collapse.

Counter argument: Then why is the Deluth Model and Family Courts legally allowed to exist. If you are so concerned with maintaining the family structure why are you actively carrying out actions that destroy it. MGTOW isn't destroying the family, MGTOW is a symptom of the problem destroying the family.

Argument two: Women are inherently net costs for society. They do not produce that much, their work mentality is often poor due to "daddy's princess" upbringings, so when you aren't taking care of them it puts a burden onto the state. Eventaully economically the state will no longer be able to maintain this burden and will either have to end its socialist programs resulting in unrest or will collapse resulting in unrest.

Counter Argument: Though I will be impacted by the unrest you mention and possibly die, you are again blaming MGTOW, a symptom of the problem for the problem. If you want men to marry, then you have to 1) Provide Security for men in marriage 2) punish infidelity harsher and 3) abolish the Deluth models and family court. You have made marriage so toxic because a group of intellectuals decided the way to force the revolution was to abolish the family unit, cultural identity, and religion.

You refuse to address the problems, so I do not believe you actually are concerned over the issue. So not my problem.

Argument three: You're just afraid of commitment.

Counter Argument: then I'm doing women a favor by not leading them on. (Sometimes the greatest argument strat is to own what they say. They are attempting to impune your character so you react "no I'm not like that." My favorite joke when people throw these accusations is to quote Adventure Time. "It's true, but while the mortal world doubts, I know what I am!" They shut up pretty quickly)

Argument four: You just hate women because of bigotry, bitterness, or because you were deceived into hating them.

Counter argument: Then why would you want me around women? Seems like I'm doing them a favor.

Argument five: You're gay. (They cannot fathom that you might not value pussy as much as they do. Sometimes this isn't intended to be an insult, but a rationalization as you have destroyed their world view)

Counter Argument: Only for you daddy. Or Just on Sunday (this emerged as a stupid joke among my friends. I have long forgotten the origin, but it had nothing to do with religion. I believe I made the joke on a Sunday.)

Argument six: You're a misogynist!

Counter argument: this really depends on the person saying it. If you know they can be reasoned with present the obvious of how bad it is for men, citing examples and saying you are not interested in risking your neck for such low reward/return. You can also say that while you do not believe all women are like that, it doesn't matter as the state will reward and society protect them when they want to be like it. That it will be an uphill battle for you to clear your name. A battle that even if won will never restore you to 100%.

If you know they cannot be reasoned with just ignore them and say you don't talk to misandrists.

Kryonite9936 · 2021-07-15T15:54:59+00:00

You must have came across many articles say in mit technology review (I used to follow it as a researcher) or new scientist etc. See I am a college student and frankly speaking, never have good faith on humanities courses in colleges. I was literally able to look through the flaws of their studies and they have shown how not to teach humanities to interested students.

One of their biggest flaws is their textbook approach. Infact, look for book "men who hate women" by Laura bates which is a best seller. In that you can find in depth analysis of how much distortion in the true ideals of mgtow were done, and still people appreciate it, as they are bound to feminist ideals. But the truth is given problems on humanities they were not able to provide solutions based on the ability of the person concerned, because they follow textbook line by line for solutions, ignoring the complexities involved.

I am waiting for the day when a good research paper based on explanations of proper philosophy of mgtow, how it's different from other section of manosphere, say MRA, The red pilled, the incels, PUAs and all. What truths our society contains which are hidden by so called biased intellects, and how feminism is actually based on apex fallacy, everything to be published and presented to the research community (Of course I know, there are biased peer viewers too but we have to show it to the whole society).

beatstorelax · 2021-07-15T16:23:22+00:00

thousands and thousands years and cultures of : "a happy life is a married life, have kids, etc etc " ...
but, lets be honests here: the world will NOT get bigger, or produce MORE IRON, MORE OIL, WATER,etc; while we are going directly to a point of : "most jobs can be done by machines/robots, while there is 10 BILLION people alive, and only 4 billions are adults that can work"

we will probably see /live times where lots of cities will become shitty (making detroit of 2021 look like heaven),... WHY would i put a kid to live on bad situations?

TigPlaze · 2021-07-15T15:40:39+00:00

Equating MGTOW with FDS is a common misconception. MGTOW advocates leaving women alone. MGTOW advocates not hurting women in any way. FDS, on the other hand, advocates exploiting men for money and abusing men, basing relationships with men solely on benefits for the women. In short, we're about leaving women alone. FDS us about using men. Big, big difference.

Prudentanalyst79 · 2021-07-15T16:00:52+00:00

MGTOW is an avoidance strategy, not a strategy to land the hottest woman, so it really isn't a good analog. Red Pill and PUA can be considered similar to FDS, but a little less psychopathic, I would think. I'm sure some angry women would screech about PUA being equally or more psychopathic than FDS, but the man isn't going into any relationship looking to get fucked. A woman who has sex with a PUA did, literally.

MGTOW at it's core is about not putting one's self into a no win situation. The old, "the only way to truly win the game is to not play" trope. Divorce rape, hostile family courts, crazy women with endless drama, sexless marriages, women who are only as loyal as your paycheck, the usual things men rightly complain about when women have reduced men to a commodity. Sure, women counter with, "men just want sex", and while that might be true for many men, only a very small percentage of men are actually able to do that, so it's not really a great rebuttal when the women actively chose to give no-strings-attached sex to those men, just men that are way out of their league.

If you think about it, a male simp is more or less equivalent to a woman who sleeps with a CHAD, no-strings attached. While FDS is in theory about not being a female simp, because of how it seems to view beta men, the men they don't really want but will make jump through hoops so those betas can have sex with these women, it is very much correct to make the analogy that FDS strategy advocates targeting "easy men" in order to extract what those women want. They use false flags and virtue to land a man who might believe he is getting a virtuous woman, who then takes him to the cleaners. So, FDS is more in line with PUA that present as something better than they are, in order to land a woman that is of a higher SMV. However, again, while the man wants sex and the woman has to be willing otherwise it is rape, the woman who has a long term goal of extracting far more in the form of wealth, is the more negative figure. I don't think any man enters a relationship looking to get burned, or destroyed.

Jakeybaby125 · 2021-07-15T16:31:04+00:00

All of their arguments are based on emotion. Women, and some men for that matter, want to remove MGTOW because they don't understand it. They don't understand it because their thought process, from a very early age, is 'Women are so awesome. Why wouldn't men want to be on relationships with them? They're perfect'. That non-understanding of MGTOW then turns into fear. Fear that, if more men were to discover this philosophy that you can live a life without women, not enough men will be left for women to have relationships with. That then directly leads to hatred of MGTOW because it's taking away good men from the dating market and robbing women of good quality men so they'll have to settle and, as we know due to hypergamy, women don't like to settle. When people hate something, they either want to censor it or control it. Same principle here. The main MGTOW and Red Pill subreddits have been quarantined and the definitions have been purposefully screwed up to try and demonise it and keep men away from it. Now, though, given that it's growing, the censorship is ramping up but that just creates more and more growth. It's basically the Barbara Streisand effect but involving gender and relationships

FreeSelf-sufficient · 2021-07-16T01:00:28+00:00

Women hate MGTOW philosophy like Slave Owners hate the Underground Railroad before the emancipation freeing them. They need us, where have all the Good Men Gone?

I Think a better acronym would be The Emancipation of Men From Terrany . TEMFT

Diligent-Education64 · 2021-07-15T15:33:49+00:00

Well, you could imagine that FDS is about women gaming the system to try to beat it. Have all her fun then land a rich guy.

MGTOW is about men learning and gaming the system to have better outcomes from relationships with women in particular and in life in general. Having a fun relationship without having to have your guts ripped out through your asshole, in MGTOW terms.

Like the Tallban we are men and advocate for men, unlike them, we see women as being equal and that they should and do have all the same rights men have with education and fairness in the courts.

Like the Taliban we are outspoken, unlike the Taliban we are non-violent. The Taliban is a political organization, MGTOW is a philosophy about self improvement.

_Shinjitsu_ · 2021-07-16T11:59:43+00:00

The Question: "regarding "the other sides" perspective, what viewpoints
do people who oppose MGTOW (both male and female) base their perspective
off of?

Women base their perspective of self-interest and money. The main way women acquire big sums of money is through the transfer of wealth from men to women.

It's in women's interest to accuse mgtow of being like the most horrifying things, in hopes that it will stun them and prevent them from refusing to allow themselves to be exploited.

The fact that a man would refuse to allow himself to be exploited, is deeply offensive to a lot of people, and is accompanied by a lot of resentment. A great number of women are depending on men's willingness to be exploited.

As far as men who oppose it, they want to signal to women that they are not like these other guys. They are real men ^(TM) .

NoMarriageNoKids · 2021-07-16T18:17:08+00:00

Don't insult Arby's like that.

Overlordofwhatever · 2021-07-16T01:34:15+00:00

For most people the middle path is tha correct answer as the Buddha said. But extreme situations call for extreme measures (or desperate). To us what has happened to the state of relationships is extreme as we have just realised and our reaction to it is perfectly justified. The people who think we are extreme are right, only that they fail to understand is that we are not extreme by choice but by conditions put upon us which are even more extreme. They just fail to see these conditions and just see us, the result of this extremism and conclude we are a bunch of incel or some other term. They don't want to think deeply about this. They don't want to evaluate the life and identity they have built because it might destroy the kind of person they have become. It will destroy the fantasy they have built in their heads of the life they want. I have seen many older people cling to their views just because of that, because accepting anything else means you were wrong for a great part of your life, your principles are wrong and your understanding of the world is wrong. Very few people in the world have the capacity to accept that without going through some sort of trauma that will make them understand this.

Poofysmoof · 2021-07-19T01:13:23+00:00

Mgtow in it’s pure form no one would be against it. It is the incels and the men still stuck in a redpill rage that get them pissed off. Look at both subs on any given day and there is some type of women bashing. Once a man really goes his own way he doesn’t even worry about women.

[deleted] · 2021-07-16T05:03:09+00:00

[deleted]

Nuclear_Pickle3244 · 2021-07-15T17:26:27+00:00

Appreciate all of the input. Think there's a sleeper cell in here though as it seems a lot of y'alls inputs were downvoted lol. Not sure why but I'd love to hear a rebuttal to these responses, instead of just downvoting and not explaining why.

Hankypankywillywanky · 2021-07-15T16:26:50+00:00

Men I have been a Christian most my life. I have never fully been a devote Christian because I simply cannot relate to it fully. MEN if you are going to live a MGToW life, look up Taoism or Hinduism. It will help you greatly. USA is a young undeveloped country as far as India, China... those eastern civilization. Learn and master their ways because as we all know this western society is collapsing. Please study other cultures and what influences their men. You will find there is greater knowledge to posses All men need spirituality to help them grow as men! Christianity creates a slave like mentality. They have worked their evil schemes into our religion men! “They who controls what shapes a man spiritually, controls the man overall.” A lot of selfishness and manipulation I find in Christian religion. “In god we trust” when America is just a big melting pot for people of different religions. This slogan needs to be re-edited and thought out another way that speaks for everyone in general. Taoism is a great example of natural flow, peacefulness, yet strength. Ying and yang. Balance.

Title	An Honest Question
Author	Nuclear_Pickle3244
Upvotes	1
Comments	32
Date	July 15, 2021 3:14 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MGTOW2
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MGTOW2/comments/okuvrm/an_honest_question/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MGTOW2/an-honest-question.797814 https://theredarchive.com/post/797814

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