I question on perspective?

GrayManMind · 2020-09-01T08:39:29+00:00

I personally don't know much about life with women in South Africa, but all I can say is if you think from the perspective in the west where one gender is afforded many privledges of succeeding in life over the other gender to where they don't even require the help of the other gender, naturally you're going to see them getting stepped on.

If you'd agree that men have the natural desire over their own wellbeing to help others, preferably women, while women do not, you can see where this can lead when a society benefits women at the expense of men. I don't know how much research you have done into this, but before you write MGTOW off as being bitter men ( while few can be ), you should educate yourself of MGTOW concerns and points first. Look at the facts.

Formulate your own opinion. I have the opinion that going the way of MGTOW in the west is the most logical way to operate for your own future as a man. With women literally being rewarded and given the incentive to break the family apart in divorce what do you think will happen to most women after years with their husband? If you could make your now boring husband your lifelong paycheck and chase something new and exciting would you? There's more to this and many more points you should look into.

BTW: You don't need to tell your daughter to avoid MGTOW men, they are already avoiding her.

King_Yautja · 2020-09-01T08:57:02+00:00

I would say it's not necessarily that all women are like that, but that all women have the potential to be like that, given the right circumstance. There is such a thing as female nature, just as there is such as thing as male nature, and everyone has it purely as a consequence of being a male or female homo sapiens.

Everyone their dark side. We're all capable of being selfish, vindictive, destructive, self destructive etc. and I think it would be fair to characterise "civilisation" as a project in which we try to curb our darker impulses. It's not longer socially acceptable to be Genghis Khan. But what has happened in the first world nations, and I believe will happen in South Africa and other countries (we're all going the same direction, we're just at different stages) is that we have simultaneously pathologised all male behavior as socially unacceptable, while enabling and encouraging women to act on their more base instincts. We're letting the demons run amok, and any attempt to keep them in check is met with shrieking cries of "misogynist!".

When every aspect of society, from the legislature, to courts, to workplace HR, is basically cheerleading for women to act on their worst impulses often at the direct expense of men, sooner or later as a man you just have to tap out. The table is so tilted you'd be an idiot for playing.

pewdsxtseries · 2020-09-01T12:56:42+00:00

Write whatever you want, we don't care. The most you can do is to ban the term "mgtow". But the basic philosophy of avoiding relationships will remain, with some different name. You can't force anyone to get into a relationship, there is no law to do so.

And for perspective, I do respect you for that. You are atleast trying to see things from our perspective.

antifeminist3 · 2020-09-01T16:46:54+00:00

"I am South African... so I don't think of myself as being radically left. "

The EFF state right on the page that "they draw from marxism", and they have seats in parliament. I think SA is more left leaning that USA.

In The USA, half of all marriages end in divorce. The women gets alimony at your expense, the kids and the home, and you pay for it all at your expense after divorce. She gets the benefits, and you pay for it all. I read about guys who live in their car because they cannot afford a place to live after paying support. Is it this bad in SA? I doubt it.

Jake4523 · 2020-09-01T18:00:01+00:00

Have you seen some of the divorce stories that are on this page? Some of the dudes got absolutely destroyed and then some. Have you seen some of the false claims that have destroyed men? It happened to me when I was younger, lucky for me I barely survived. Some of these guys kill themselves and women say that it is a good thing (trust me I have seen the posts on Twitter, Facebook, hell go to FDS on here and see what they think of men). Also we have to speak in generalities, because in GENERAL women have the capability to literally destroy a man's reputation, livelihood, and take everything he has plus whatever he might make. Does that sound like a fair deal for you? I also haven't even gotten into the fact that the make fun of men in commercials, on TV shows, in the news, online.

Maximum_Afternoon · 2020-09-01T18:05:15+00:00

| I have a daughter who is approaching the age of noticing boys, why shouldn't I point to you lot as a group and saying that lot are the sort you should avoid?

Oh, you absolutely should. If she had the choice between these two groups:

men who will reward her with attention and money for her work, interests, opinions, looks, sex, and provide her with access to their other resources simply because she's a woman
men who will reward her with money for her work

Why would she chose option 2 over option 1? It doesn't make any sense.

In any case, sincere thanks for your excellent question. 👍

Maximum_Afternoon · 2020-09-01T18:14:40+00:00

| men who are bitter because they fall into the (unlucky) camp of being bitten by a nasty person (in this case a woman)

I think that undersells the situation. It makes it sound like an encounter with a grumpy cashier.

Take your annual salary. Multiply that by five. Now imagine being told you had to pay that to your ex wife over the next ten years, just for the privilege of no longer living with her, even after you had spent the past 20 years paying for all housing, food, support, travel, medical, everything. AND half of what you had accumulated, she gets that too.

Try that math on in your head, 5 times your annual salary, and imagine having that debt right now.

It happened to me, so yeah, that happens. It's certainly easy enough to dismiss it as anecdotal, but there are 130,000+ people in this sub, so it's hard to say that it's rare. And many examples of similar results show up here daily as links and clippings.

[deleted] · 2020-09-02T00:45:50+00:00

[deleted]

[deleted] · 2020-09-02T00:47:40+00:00

[deleted]

TheApricotCavalier · 2020-09-02T00:49:42+00:00

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioral_sink

krazyrobus1 · 2020-09-02T21:22:38+00:00

I guess I am curious why shouldn't I (as I have done so far) continue to write off MGTOW as being men who are bitter because they fall into the (unlucky) camp of being bitten by a nasty person (in this case a woman) and are now just generalizing about ALL women (or whatnot) based on this experience?

You shouldn't. We are bitter, bitten by nasty people.

Hope that helps, cheerio!

SPI-MGTOW · 2020-09-04T21:36:10+00:00

You can write us off as anything you want. Doesn't matter to us in the least. Not being hostile or anything, and you're welcome to consume the same content in here we do. If you don't find it compelling, that's fine. But I wouldn't expect a ton of overtures trying to persuade you to our point-of-view.

We aren't seeking validation or global consensus on MGTOW, it's literally about going our own way. I think (and this is not an attack on your views) that left-leaning people tend to be very dependent on group consensus and external validation of their ideas (i.e. the 'wisdom of the crowd' is brought to bear on the individual). MGTOW, by definition, values individualism highly.

So if you are happy, enjoy yourself. Great. If you think we are [insert disparaging dismissive claim], that's fine too. Doesn't matter to us in the least.

rickstrawburg · 2020-09-06T00:43:57+00:00

I guess I am curious why shouldn't I (as I have done so far) continue to write off MGTOW as being men who are bitter because they fall into the (unlucky) camp of being bitten by a nasty person (in this case a woman) and are now just generalizing about ALL women

I know nothing about South Africa or the woman and status of sexual/romantic relationships there but here in America these 'nasty' people that are driving us to generalize about all women are a staggering percentage of women

I can see how you think it's just one odd nasty woman here or there if you're not here.

Your example: A woman using the law to fleece a man whilst chasing another feels like an example of my point? Such a woman is a bad person, but what does that have to do with women as a group?

Because The Group Is Rotten. Pick up a piece of bread and tell me how much mold is on there. A speck? Yeah. You might tear that speck off and eat the rest. If no one told you there was mold there you might have even just eaten the slice of bread. Half of the bread is covered in mold? Yeah, you're probably just gonna toss the whole thing

Your entire perspective BEGS the question: How many women in a population (your population) would need to be irredeemable trash for you to actually write off women? I mean it. Legitimately ponder this question for yourself because you clearly have a hard time with it.

cleats4u · 2020-09-01T12:05:13+00:00

If you can read all this stuff in MGTOW and the millions of other men experiences and write them off as bitter and can't get laid? You have no empathy for men. MGTOW is not in the business of making a pitch to men to join up. Men are attracted to it because they hear their own story with women as told through other men. They are not crazy, they are not alone. Millions of men are having the same experiences over and over again with women and walking away. Just because it hasn't happened to you yet or enough times doesn't mean it won't. Getting laid and knocking a woman up should not be the end game for a man. Do you realize how easy that is to do if you can just find employment, lose a little weight and develop a personality? MGTOW is about survival and you dictating how your going to survive as a man in this world. Not a woman deciding and "her" government which she majority voted into office through shame and guilt.

DonMelbourne · 2020-09-01T11:25:52+00:00

Finally: I have a daughter who is approaching the age of noticing boys, why shouldn't I point to you lot as a group (as I am currently inclined) and saying that lot are the sort you should avoid?

Do you mean, you'd advise her to stay away from a particular group since engaging with that group wouldn't be in her best interests? So in a sense, she should decide to 'go her own way' from that group? It sounds like good sensible advice.

CuriousIncel2 · 2020-09-01T09:22:59+00:00

You may believe what you wish, friend. MGTOW are no strangers to being considered as incels, losers, angry, resentful, bitter men.

I simply choose to filter out the noise, and imbibe the wisdom of men who've travelled the path before me, and found the answers to the questions I seek, even if in some cases I decide that upon independent consideration, that particular situation does not apply to me.

VestigialHead · 2020-09-01T09:28:59+00:00

Because the bad relationships greatly out weigh the good ones.

Yes it is possible to find a partner who will not play you and grind you down and then divorce you and take your assets and prevent you from seeing your children. But the odds have dropped of finding this relationship in the last three decades to a point where it is much more likely these bad things will happen than will not happen.

So it has become a massive risk to go into a long term relationship.

Oh and if by US standards you are considered extremely left then you are considered extremely left by everyone in the world. Not many countries that have more extreme leftism than the US. From what i can tell South Africa would be much more right leaning.

Title	I question on perspective?
Author	mjhrobson
Upvotes	2
Comments	33
Date	September 1, 2020 8:17 AM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MGTOW2
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MGTOW2/comments/ikgfth/i_question_on_perspective/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MGTOW2/i-question-on-perspective.805793 https://theredarchive.com/post/805793

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