~ archived since 2018 ~

Permission.

FlourishedCass

May 28, 2020

1 upvotes

/r/MGTOW2

I see a lot of folk still lacking on this forum. People who have been here for a long time. They've read all the posts, watched all the videos, browsed all the forums, ran through every little scenario in their head. They know their shit, but it's all theory.

These people are sat on information goldmines, yet they continue with their meek lives as before. Consuming and coasting. I'm sure those of you this applies to, know exactly what I'm talking about. You want to make a change and you have all these plans, but you're still looking for permission.

Well this post is for you people. This is your permission. You're an independent man and you don't need to answer to shit from anyone. This is your opportunity to take action on all the things you've just been passively thinking about until now.

It's time to dust yourself off, stand tall and be a man. You have permission, freedom and opportunity. Now go build something with it.

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Post Information

Title	Permission.
Author	FlourishedCass
Upvotes	1
Comments	33
Date	May 28, 2020 6:51 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MGTOW2
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MGTOW2/comments/gsc73h/permission/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MGTOW2/permission.807997 https://theredarchive.com/post/807997

Comments

[–]MuleFool4216 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]IAmJacksGagReflex3 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]MuleFool424 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]MGTOW_BEASTMODE3 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]MuleFool422 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]IAmJacksGagReflex1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]MGTOW_BEASTMODE1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]IAmJacksGagReflex2 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]MGTOW_BEASTMODE1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]IAmJacksGagReflex1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I completely disagree. If what you were saying were true, there wouldn't be millions of able-bodied people abusing welfare systems the world over. Do you believe that there are not people who derive immense satisfaction knowing that the food they eat, the roof over their head, the clothes on their back were all paid for by the fruits of another man's labor while they just sat on their ass, especially when that man is of another race/religion/nationality? In many cases these people believe that by leaching off a system they feel is unjust or illegitimate, they are doing their small part to undermine it and/or bring it down.

Building and the short-sighted desire for perpetual growth (AKA greed) is what has brought humanity within a breath of extinction. We live on a finite planet. Perpetual growth in not sustainable. Destruction is not sometimes part of building, it is intrinsic to it.

[–]MGTOW_BEASTMODE1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]IAmJacksGagReflex1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]MGTOW_BEASTMODE1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]IAmJacksGagReflex2 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

For you, maybe. You're still basing your self-worth on an antiquated psychological understanding of what it means to be a man and it does not apply to everybody. In order for me to accept your definition, I would also have to accept that I am noting more than a meat machine that exists to serve someone else's definition of what I should think and want and do. The behaviors you're talking about are just a hold-over from when we needed to attach our self-worth to what we could provide for others. As MGTOW, aren't we supposed to be leaving that nonsense behind?

People accept the rationale for this as though it's self evident and nothing could be further from the truth. The ethos of "achieving stuff" is a poor substitute for a personal identity and shows a complete lack of self-awareness.

I have a happy, peaceful, quiet life that I find very fulfilling. On my days off, I wake up, work out, have a healthy meal, weed my garden, do what needs to be done around the house, read, play with my dog, play some video games, meditate, etc. I don't set out with a plan and these aren't goals - it's puttering around the house. So I'll ask again...why?

[–]MuleFool421 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

On my days off, I wake up, work out, have a healthy meal, weed my garden, do what needs to be done around the house, read, play with my dog, play some video games, meditate, etc.

You answered your own question. How did you come to own a house? Have a garden to tend to, a dog to take care of that makes you happy, enough money to buy video games that you like, to find meditation as a way to keep balance.

You're not lazy, obviously. And yes, success looks different for every person, but like it or not, you have conformed in some regard, and that's ok. I'm all for changing the framework of normal, but until that happens, we all operate on the same set of basics from society.

I'm all for a new paradigm, but unless everyone else is bought into it, you're going to make concessions.

As long as you are fulfilled, you have you 'why?' It's just looks different for you than it will for me. I gave you what my basics are that I think work for most of us in the society that we live in, I'm in the US. Have professional goals, personal, financial, physical, mental, emotional, because achieving them will allow you to live a better life.

If you have your own house you've covered a profession or vocation, you meditate - mental/emotional, personal (hobbies) - gardening. You're basically demonstrating what I'm saying. We're not really in conflict here.

[–]IAmJacksGagReflex1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Thank you for taking the time to answer and for providing an articulate response. Having said that, you're moving the goalposts and not actually answering the question.

"...men of action focused on achieving goals and never stopping." is not the same as living a peaceful life puttering around the house. Doing what is necessary to fulfill my basic needs as a human being (food, clothing, shelter, companionship, entertainment) is not the same as focusing on achieving goals and never stopping. Somehow "never stopping" morphed into "stopping once you have fulfilled certain criteria". That is the difference between "need" and "want". I'm not unwilling to make concessions and I think you're trying to guess at my personal philosophy to better understand where I'm coming from, but you're missing the mark. I get the realities of life in this day and age. I am not a hermit.

Since nobody has been able to provide me with an answer, I've had to try to consider the rationale of the "grind" ethos from the perspective of someone that has "bought in". As you said, the goals people discuss are almost exclusively financial and professional. It seems that these are the only ways a man can measure his worth these days. As such and without going into too much detail, the whole "grind" ideology is just a denomination of the new religion of consumerism and the exhalation in the satisfaction of ego. Like Catholicism or Shi'a Islam it attaches a specific set of rules, beliefs and actions to provide an acceptable dogma to follow. Unlike most other religious denominations it is wholly masturbatory and devoid of true spiritual satisfaction. This is my point - this is how men are attempting to fill the gaping void that has been created by the absence of "God" and/or a life partner/family. I'm saying that this void can be just as easily filled by restoring a 70-year-old axe head or growing/hunting your own dinner or spending a sunny day napping in a hammock as it can with a 2020 GMC Sierra Denali or some new job title. I'm also saying that the satisfaction can be much greater and long-lasting, without inadvertently enriching a society that has deemed your very nature toxic and feels that is is their responsibility to perpetually throw that in your face.

I'm not saying it's good or bad or that my or your way of doing things is right or wrong, I'm simply saying that it is.

And I never said we were in conflict, only that we disagree on the value of, purpose for and psychology behind the grind/achieve/improve ethos. A difference of opinion doesn't mean conflict and society would do well to remember that.

[–]MuleFool421 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

"never stopping" doesn't have to be only professional and financial. I doubt you'll "dong nothing" for long. Like you said, you'll fix old things, hunt, grow, etc... those are the personal goals that we all need to pursue to have fulfillment. You'd like to make out to be some material capitalist. I'm not, and if your goals are more spiritual, that falls under 'personal', in my view and personal goals are as important as any other.

You may feel the need to push back on my basic prescription but you're basically following it. It will always be personalized/adjusted for the wants of the individual. If you want to say that you live by some other philosophy that wholly different, that's fine, but in my mind it's a distinction without a difference and you're pretty much proving my point with your comments.

Peace.

[–]IAmJacksGagReflex1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]MuleFool421 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]IAmJacksGagReflex1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]MuleFool421 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]imcleverartistname1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]IAmJacksGagReflex2 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

That's the unanswerable existential question and completely unrelated to the spirit of the original post. Even if you decide to break it down into why each individual person believes they are alive or what they believe their life purpose to be, the answer will be different for everybody and still doesn't actually answer the question of why a human being is alive. Your question also doesn't answer mine.

My question was specifically why "MGTOW should be men of action focused on achieving goals and never stopping.". Every time I ask this question, the people responding come up with obtuse nonsense or get angry and start attacking me personally. At the very best, they bust out the one-size-fits-all rationale like MuleFool42. Not once have I had a compelling answer from anyone that would make me accept that a man's place in life is to "achieve goals and never stop". In order to do so, I would also have to accept that I am nothing more than a meat machine that exists to serve someone else's definition of what I should think and want and do. People accept the rationale for this as though it's self evident and it's simply not. "Achieving stuff" is a poor substitute for a personal identity and shows a complete lack of self-awareness.

[–]imcleverartistname1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]IAmJacksGagReflex2 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]imcleverartistname0 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]IAmJacksGagReflex2 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]imcleverartistname1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]IAmJacksGagReflex2 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TigPlaze7 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I would really love to have my own cabin in the remote woods somewhere with all my needs met and no need to work a job anymore. My cabin would have electricity and running water (maybe off grid?). I would have my own library. I would use my time there to write books. It would be a big plus if I were near a lake where I can go boating if I want to. This is a tall order, but I believe I can do it.

Before going MGTOW, I spoke two languages, English and German. Since the change, I have now added French. It's taken a lot of study, and I still have room for improvement, but I can go to a French-language country and have no trouble at all with conversations, saying whatever I need to and understanding people. So my goal now is to get better at it. I'm advanced, but I have room for improvement. My German is pretty much like my English. It's totally fluent, and is just like using English. My French is quite good, but I make more grammatical errors, and I'm less versatile with dialects, meaning I struggle to understand dialects like Arcadian. I would also like to learn Spanish. If I can learn German and French, I can certainly learn Spanish.

I'd like to get some bucks together and travel around the world using all my language skills. Maybe I could do the Queen Mary 2 World Tour. Would be cool.

[–]Freelance_Sector2 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Asian-incel2 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]deepspace74 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link