~ archived since 2018 ~

Feminism Explained (now in cartoon form!)

WishyWasherman

December 24, 2010

6 upvotes

/r/MensRights

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05ro6fcj6Ek&feature=player_embedded

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Post Information

Title	Feminism Explained (now in cartoon form!)
Author	WishyWasherman
Upvotes	6
Comments	19
Date	December 24, 2010 1:03 AM UTC (15 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/eqpg1/feminism_explained_now_in_cartoon_form/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/feminism-explained-now-in-cartoon-form.1044987 https://theredarchive.com/post/1044987

Comments

[+][deleted] 15 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 15 years ago* (10 children) | Copy Link

I've always found it frustrating too to see so few women ever actually taking any kind of hard sciences(And, talking to women in general, this was always because they looked down on the meek and geeky; not because of inequality) or practical majors(which, again, was generally because they looked down on them, typically because they found them to be boring or "undignified") but so many instead choosing to go for liberal arts majors or subjects which, really, had very little real life applications(or at best seemed to provide very few opportunities and/or glorified low-income opportunities).

Personally, I found this to be extremely frustrating because it basically meant that a) they probably weren't paying for it b) it's like they were just taking anything for the sake of taking something, without ever even having the intention of using it(as someone would undoubtedly be providing for them eventually anyway) and/or c) they would have the option to remain dependent on others(parents, boyfriends or husbands) for financial stability, allowing them to be able to sustain those life choices and/or to finance possible future "endeavours" they might eventually decide to attempt with said knowledge; all of which were luxuries, or privileges, that most men really weren't afforded in the first place and that so many of them seemed to really be taking for granted(some of whom were also self-proclaimed feminists).

The other thing that I noticed was that, out of the those who were truly dedicated and driven, their motivation was always out of pure self-interest; it was never "I wanna be successful because I want to be able to provide for my family/husband one day"(A position which seemed all too common for men at the time). Funny how so little, if any at all, of feminist activism, despite it's claims to be about equality, actually seems to stem from benevolent intentions.

[–]twocacti 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago* (8 children) | Copy Link

The point I was making on feminism was separate from the point I was making on women's disposition for liberal arts but, since you've brought it up, it does still relate to feminist activism in how feminism still, generally speaking, ignores female privileges(which liberal arts generally implies, in many different ways; some of which I highlighted above) in virtually every single aspect imaginable(which includes their discourse, their perspective on equality, their motivations or even prevalence in the composition of its affiliates). It also shows that the larger majority of feminist activism is, for the most part, still focusing very little of their efforts towards women(at the risk of alienating their own) and instead continue to perpetuate blame, shame and hate towards men(nearly exclusively). Not to mention how feminism is still blaming countless other factors(most of which typically fall back to "men") when justifying the lack of women in science, politics, hard labour, etc; instead of seeing that there are fewer women being involved in these fields, not because of female oppression, but because the majority of women do not have any interest in these fields, often even looking down on them(Attitudes and life choices which, again, often stem from the privileges they hold as women).

Most of which also comes down to the reality that feminism does not have, or never truly had, benevolent or egalitarian intentions(I'm curious, have you ever seen a feminist say: "Women should be in the workplace, or work harder, so men don't have to kill themselves for our benefit anymore!") and that it's primary focus has always been to provide further privileges for women with little care for the suffering of men(At best, you could say feminism is about female independence which, in moderation, is a wonderful thing; however, not when it becomes about belittling, dehumanizing and demonizing men, and many other aspect of masculinity/male sexuality, and treating them as expendable burdens for women).

[–]twocacti 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago* (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]twocacti 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

Because what you or those 100 other self-proclaimed feminists are fighting for isn't really genuine equality in the first place; you are fighting for women first and foremost(if not exclusively). A definition of equality which relies on dishonest and misandric principles is also not really fighting for genuine equality(even if you think you are). And while, you may also think there are 100 self proclaimed feminists who do think like you do(though, not really sure those 100 necessarily think the same way you do just because you believe them to be), you'll also find 100, 500 or 1000 other self-proclaimed feminists who do, in fact, perpetuate this misandry(intentionally or without even being aware of it). To also use the term feminism, and proclaim any kind of seniority, supremacy or monopoly on the subject of equality(Typically to further perpetuate feminist ideologies no less), is also completely undermining genuine equality efforts and, in many ways, actually hurting equality.

I didn't say that feminism was a useless word because of the countless different interpretations each feminist may have of feminism(though, even if I was, that would be a poor example for a couple of reasons); if anything, what I have said before is that there are plenty of feminists who simply use the label wrongfully or misguidedly, whether because of ignorance, conformity or a sense of female solidarity(which I would also consider sexism). These feminists may be potential "allies" in theory but, in practice, they are still reinforcing the same type of destructive mentality/activism that feminism truly is about(And, really, I ask myself: how good of an "ally" could someone who remains oblivious to this truly be? If you are as genuinely motivated, or self-motivated, to help men as you say you are in the first place, why would it even matter?).

I agree, it is absolutely a shame that we couldn't just come together as true egalitarians(being both men and women's rights activists) because some people were either too stubborn to let go of a misrepresentative label(which, at its core, still stands for nothing more than a glorified hate movement that, through the greatest of all ironies, still persists because of female privilege) and the misandric ideologies/history that it represents; or simply because other feminists told them not to.

[–]twocacti 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

For the record, I made far more efforts to understand your perspective(which, isn't really new to me) than you give me credit for(and, it seems to me, you aren't really giving my perspective as much of a chance as you say you are either; despite everything I've just said, or anything I could have said, you still insist on blindly clinging on to the label). Regardless, if you truly believe you are doing your best for equality and that you do, in fact, care about men(and women) like you say you do; than you don't need feminism, or even my approval of feminism(or of your definition of feminism), to do it. Just remember that my objections aren't against you personally(though I would argue that you are still calling yourself feminist for all the wrong reason) or women; they are against misandry(in all its forms), the detrimental effects that feminism, as a movement and ideology, perpetuate on society and against those who misguidedly support or vindicate its name, position and legacy.

[–]twocacti1 point 15 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]1 point 15 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

The ones who truly care will come here and will help out no matter what; the rest who reject men's rights because of the anti-feminist position many of its affiliates hold never really cared that much about us in the first place(though, I'm sure many would pretend like they do) and certainly wouldn't be very open-minded allies(especially if they still persistently support misandry through feminism). Why should we even let their anti-male, and anti-mensrights, bigotry dictate our principles and discourse?

Why should we give up on our ideals on equality, turning a blind eye to sexism, simply to adhere to the anti-male bias of feminist ideologies or the whims of their supporters because they don't truly understand what the label stands for(seriously, I don't understand how it's so hard to understand: Fem-I-Nism; the bias is undeniable, it's even there in the word itself)?

For the record, the label of feminism is also considerably more alienating than you realize - not only insuring that thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of people will avoid it but actually insuring that the people we need to reach out to the most will avoid the equality discourse altogether(something which is especially true when feminism falsely misrepresents itself as being about equality) - so, really, your point is kind of moot(and it is certainly not helping in getting all the help we can get either).

In any case, no, I don't think eradicating sexism necessarily requires cooperation(at least not in the way you seem to be applying the term). My beliefs are mine alone, I don't need anyone else to tell me how to think or what label to wear to do so. I may find help from other like-minded individuals but, in the end, stopping sexism requires an individual effort from everyone.

What I don't understand is that, even if I have given you at least a dozen reasons for far, you still stubbornly choose to hold on to the label(and, from you've given me at least, for no reason at all). Even though it would be significantly easier for you to just give up that label and the sexism that is attached to its history and definition(though, as far as I'm concerned, if you truly cared about equality, it wouldn't even be a question) than it would be to expect an entire movement, who's only purpose is to make people aware of or stop misandry, to actually vindicate misandry.

[–]lordnibbler77 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]BolshevikMuppet -2 points-1 points0 points 15 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]AntiFeministMedia 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]BolshevikMuppet -1 points0 points1 point 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Rabbitbunny 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]dasSchnabeltier 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]disposable_human 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link