First time here a little confused

RapeMatters · 2017-09-23T19:40:31+00:00

We're legit concerned about the institutional and social discrimination against men in society.

You WILL see a lot of antifeminism here, mostly because feminism, as a movement, has been working hard to make sure that men's gender roles remain exactly as they are, as they specifically benefit women at men's expense.

Me, personally, I used to be a feminist but no longer am. The evidence of feminism working hard to protect female rapists, child abusers, and domestic abusers from facing any kind of consequence has driven me out of the movement.

You won't see a lot of anti-woman stuff here. Generally, we view women better than feminism, as a movement, does. We consider them to be mature responsible adults who should be held responsible for their decisions made as responsible mature adults, rather than nebulously blaming society or any man who happens to be nearby as society in general does.

We're not anti-woman here. We just think women should be held to the same standards of adulthood as men.

deciples · 2017-09-23T19:32:57+00:00

are you conflating anti feminist with anti women? expressing anger and pain caused by women isnt anti women, and being anti feminist is also not anti women. women and femimism are not the same groups.

as to seeming anti feminist more than pro mens rights: feminism is a direct road block and sets itself as oppositional to mens rights. when they say "we dont need the MRA, feminsim is for equality" they are espoussing a direct and disngenuse claim to speak for men.

grasshopa · 2017-09-23T19:18:38+00:00

Where are you seeing the anti-woman?

Dembara · 2017-09-23T21:45:40+00:00

First, I would apologize for all the downvotes: people here are used to trolls coming in to try and claim we all hate women when we very much do not (I believe I can safely say almost all of us also support women's rights). It is not a trolling sub. There is a good deal of anti-feminism, though some here do consider themselves feminists. This is largely because there has been a push from feminist movements to suppress any men's rights movements, so we are often found in opposition. Also, some of the legal injustices faced by men are the result of feminist activism (the best example of this is the Duluth Model). We are entirely pro-men's rights and supporting men in the issues they face. I would not say it's so much about being pro-men, however, rather their is advocacy on specific issues and ends.

GunOfSod · 2017-09-23T19:21:54+00:00

You might want to read the sidebar, I believe it explains this sub's stance on feminism. After that, you're welcome to try and ask a feminist sub, why they oppose men's rights.

IDeliverToPMME_Users · 2017-09-23T19:37:12+00:00

So is the idea of this comment a genuine concern with men's rights or is this a trolling comment ?

HeForeverBleeds · 2017-09-23T19:34:06+00:00

Where do you see any "anti-women" things? And being anti-feminist and pro-men's rights isn't mutually exclusive, considering that group tends to perpetuate many of the issues and double standards that harm males

Saying you don't see things you interpret as men's rights means either you're not being genuine, you have a twisted perspective on what you consider to be pro-man but not anti-woman content, or you haven't spent more than a couple of minutes here

JesseStone307 · 2017-09-23T22:32:29+00:00

It has nothing to do with being ani-woman. Women cry that shit when they are called out on their crap when they treat men like shit.

letsgetfunkymonkey · 2017-09-23T23:51:45+00:00

You can't be for men's rights without being anti-feminism. There is no (welcome) anti-woman here.

EricAllonde · 2017-09-24T01:37:06+00:00

it just seems to me that this group is a lot of anti feminism and anti woman rather than for men's rights or pro man

First, you won't see many anti-women posts or comments here, and those few that are will be quickly downvoted to hell.

Anti-feminism though is a different story. Feminism is a fundamentally flawed ideology that's doing immense harm to its victims.

Women have had the equal rights and equal opportunities that mid-20th century feminists said they wanted for decades now. So if feminism was "just about equality" as is claimed, the movement would have disbanded long ago. But it hasn't, because of course that claim is a lie.

We should not be surprised by the supremacist behaviour of feminists, because there is no mechanism within the feminist movement that would cause it to stop when parity is achieved. Rather than being anything to do with equality, feminism is the movement for advancing women's interests in all situations and without limitation.

Here are two examples of many:

1) Criminal Justice

There is a massive gender gap in the criminal justice system: when we compare men & women who commit the same crimes and have similar criminal histories, women are less likely to be arrested, more likely to be given bail, less likely to be convicted, less likely to be given a jail sentence if convicted, are given shorter sentences (men's sentences are 63% longer - and extra 23 months - than those given to women for the same crimes) and women serve a smaller percentage of their sentence before being paroled.

In fact, if men were treated equally leniently as women are by the criminal justice system, there would be about 84% fewer men in prison today:

http://mhrm.uk/wiki/analysis-of-gender-bias-in-sentencing-data/

The criminal justice system is a perfect illustration of how gynocentric our society really is, which is the opposite of what feminist dogma proclaims. The fact that feminism denies reality to the same extent as the flat earth society does is one of our main criticisms of it.

So here we have an undeniable example of massive inequality between men & women. It's not a result of choice either, like women choosing not to go into STEM fields in equal numbers to men. No, this is an inequality that's forced upon the men who are victims of it.

So what are feminists doing to correct this huge injustice, if feminism really is "just about equality"? Are feminists fighting for gender equality in sentencing? No, of course they aren't. Feminists mostly avoid talking about the criminal justice system, as they do every situation where women are privileged and advantaged.

Those few feminists who are talking about the criminal justice system are taking the exact opposite position: they want women to be treated even more leniently still:

We should stop putting women in jail. For anything.

Like I said: feminism feminism is the movement for advancing women's interests in all situations and without limitation. So it's only natural that being massively advantaged by the criminal justice system already isn't enough for feminists - they want even more favourable treatment still!

2) Educational System

Feminists have succeeded in having the education system feminised, so that it now advantages girls and disadvantages boys, who are falling behind as a result. The percentage of university students who are male has slumped to 40% and is still falling.

Are feminists satisfied with this achievement? Do they think that raising the percentage of female students to 2/3 of the total is enough? Of course not.

For example, take a look at the field of veterinary science. In a few decades it has swung from being majority male to now 90% of new graduates and students are female. As a result, in many countries we have a shortage of large animal vets willing to work on farms, because most of the women vets want to treat family pets in city-based clinics.

So at Sydney University, a private donor funded a single scholarship which said candidates must a) be specialising in large animals; b) plan to work on farms after graduation; c) be financially disadvantages and d) preference would be given to male students.

It's the first and only scholarship with a preference for men - not even a hard rule that it has to go to a man, just a preference if all the other criteria are met.

What happened?

Feminists went nuts, claiming that a single scholarship with a preference for men "perpetuates the patriarchy". They protested bitterly at a private individual wanting to spend private funds in a modest attempt to slightly increase the number of male vet science students from 10% of the total to 10% + 1.

It seems the goals of feminism encompass only only lifting the number of female university students to 100% of the total, they also want 100% of the scholarship funds on offer.

But feminism is about equality, right? Don't make me laugh.

What's really going on: feminists are actively working to make things worse for men

Consider these facts:

Every attempt to move child custody towards a default assumption of equally shared parenting when there are no issues of abuse by either parent, has been vehemently opposed in the USA by NOW, the largest feminist organisation in the world.
Feminists created the Duluth Model for dealing with domestic violence and succeeded in having it made standard operating procedure for police forces around the world. The Duluth model teaches that domestic violence is caused by “patriarchy” and always committed by men against women. Police are taught that the man is always at fault and should be arrested, then removed from his home. As a result, when men call police to report being victims of DV at the hands of their female partners, the most likely outcome is that police will arrest them (31% of the time) rather than the woman who is abusing them (25% of the time). Feminists have literally trained police forces around the world to be so anti-male that they will arrest the victims of violence rather than the perpetrators, but only if the victim is male and the perpetrator is female.
Every attempt to set up men’s issues groups on university campuses has been bitterly opposed by feminist groups, and in almost every case feminists have succeeded in preventing the groups from being established. Feminists are completely unmoved by the academic failure or even suicide of boys and young men; their desire to cling to power and maintain a monopoly on dealing with gendered problems (meaning only women's problems) is far more important to them.
Every attempt to organise public talks on issues such as male suicide faces protests, sometimes violent protests, by feminists seeking to prevent the talk from going ahead.
Every conference on men’s issues faces feminist attempts to prevent it going ahead, including violent protests and, in one case, bomb threats.
Feminists even try to stop every screening of the Red Pill documentary, the only documentary ever made on the men’s rights movement. Here in Australia, every screening was protested by feminists. In many cases they succeeded in getting the cinemas to cancel screenings through a combination of hysterics, pressure and lies.
On multiple occasions, feminists have literally laughed in the face of people trying to raise awareness of male suicide, and then immediately gone on to use all the political power & influence they could muster to block said efforts.
Feminists continually push initiatives for men to be stripped of more and more of their legal rights, including rights to due process and to mount a defense against accusations. When feminists get their way, as they have in US universities since 2011, we see their end game revealed: men punished on nothing more than the word of the accuser, given no chance to defend themselves and with all exculpatory evidence excluded to better streamline the process of confirming the accused man's predetermined guilt.
As per the example above, more ambitious feminists push to eliminate the punishment of female criminals entirely. Not content with a criminal justice system which treats women so leniently at every step in the process that, if men were treated equally leniently there would be 84% fewer men in jail today, these feminists argue that women's prisons should all be closed and that women should never be jailed no matter what their crime, because reasons.
Scroll through this sub for a while and notice that every single week it highlights dozens of anti-male articles written by feminists and published in mainstream publications. Every week feminists, via the media, tell the world that they think men are violent, rapists, stupid, evil, oppressors, "over", pedophiles and an endless variety of other forms of demonisation.

The bottom line

Men have very good reasons to be critical of feminism and the behaviour of feminists. Feminism is a hate movement that has already done enormous damage to men and has no intention of stopping. Feminism is really a misandry-fuelled female supremacist movement.

MRAs oppose feminism because a) it's necessary to do so in order to achieve equal rights for men; and b) it's in the best interests of society as a whole.

The good news is that public support for feminism is collapsing in almost every western country. In the US and Australia it's down to the mid teens now, while the UK is leading the way with only 7% of the population identifying as feminists. Those figures continue to fall, so we're getting closer to the day when feminism's political power is stripped back enough that we can finally get legal changes in favour of actual equality, rather than the female supremacy feminism has been pursuing.

MagicTampon · 2017-09-24T02:43:46+00:00

Why would it be a "trolling" sub?

genderbent · 2017-09-26T11:10:34+00:00

There's a lot of anti-feminism here, which is unfortunate from my pro-feminist viewpoint, but there's also lots of good men's issues content, and the community is very welcoming of opinions from either perspective - that's not to say you won't have a bit of an uphill battle if you want to defend feminism here, but you won't get banned for having the wrong opinion and the rules are consistent for everyone. It's kind of refreshing - it's about the only place I know where you can just discuss gender freely without having to worry about getting pilloried for wrongthink.

DavidByron2 · 2017-09-26T17:02:34+00:00

Feminism is a hate movement that attacks men.

That's why there's a lot of talk about it on this civil rights board for men's rights. Of course there is. Feminism is the main block against gender equality in the world today and is a powerful lobby for hatred and sexism.

a lot of anti feminism and anti woman

About 80% of women are not feminists. Feminists pretend all women are feminists and often exchange the words as if they meant the same but it's as if the KKK managed to make you believe all white people were in the KKK. That wasn't true even at the height of their movement in the 1920s when they had a lot of political power as feminists have today.

There's nothing anti-woman about civil rights, but there's plenty that's opposed to feminism and the KKK.

Mythandros · 2017-09-27T19:42:57+00:00

Anti-feminism isn't a bad thing. Feminism is toxic. Opposing toxicity is a good thing, not a bad one.

And while there is some woman hate here, that is a fringe element. People here are about equality and equal treatment.

JStheHammer · 2017-09-23T19:13:39+00:00

Yep.

TheSmashGuy · 2017-09-24T02:52:32+00:00

There's a bit of both tbh. If you want a comprehensive view on all the opinions surrounding men's issues (you should) then I'd recommend looking through both this sub and r/menslib, which is more feminist-orientated.

Title	First time here a little confused
Author	Jkelley714
Upvotes	3
Comments	39
Date	September 23, 2017 7:07 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/72080h/first_time_here_a_little_confused/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/first-time-here-a-little-confused.913947 https://theredarchive.com/post/913947

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