I'm really afraid to speak out.

royzin · 2013-04-30T10:12:04+00:00

I'll give you some advice, because I think it's important that you feel comfortable sharing this stuff, and I think a lot of people aren't aware of it.

a) sometimes it's difficult for me to participate in this subreddit, because sometimes people go too far when they get heated, and sometimes offensive things are said about women. It's important not to try to diminish that women's rights are also an issue, or argue that women don't experience sexism too. It's absolutely possible to discuss men's rights without doing that, and a lot more people will listen.

-If you're worried you might be speaking to an audience that is inclined to prejudge your position without actually hearing you out, turn it back to the universal issues of gender role issues. Try to avoid gendering things that don't need to be gendered. In the words of "Diamond" Dave Whittaker: "Cast a wide net, find the common thread"

-But don't compromise what you believe because you worry your position might not be popular. It would only be unpopular because it's misunderstood. Find ways to chip away at this misunderstanding, and properly introduce your position.

-Isolate the common, knee-jerk reactions that the uneducated may respond with, and find a way to lead with that. (Example: "How can a 120 pound female hurt a 200 pound male?" , "She can push him down the stairs".)

-Eliminate these possible ignorant reactions before they can happen by discussing their sources (like male disposability)

-Try to avoid isolating potential allies. It's not worth losing a feminist friend who otherwise agrees with 100% of the MRM just because of their affiliation. Work to change minds, not identities.

-Don't be insensitive or dismissive to women's issues, they often come from precisely the same place as men's issues. Be critical of the cause of the societal illness, not the symptoms themselves.

I hope that helps, and good luck. I use a lot of these methods, and I think I'm getting better. Keep an open mind, that's the most important (and hardest) part.

themountaingoat · 2013-04-30T03:53:15+00:00

I find there is a certain way to approach things when it comes to MR issues to avoid being preachy. One of the best ways is to bring it up when it comes up from some other issues, for example if single mothers come up you can discuss the issues regarding fatherlessness and the discrimination in family courts that cause it. You can also find people making feminist type comments and that is often a neat segue into the whole MR discussion.

If people are not taking the discussion seriously it doesn't really help to get into a long argument with them. You need to meet pithy dismissals with equally pithy dismissals.

It also helps to not approach the subject by getting compassion for men when you are talking to other men. Men won't particularly care about male victims of DV or rape generally, and so your best bet is to discuss those issues in terms of the fact that women don't have it as bad as is claimed, and use the male statistics to illustrate that.

It is much harder to discuss these issues with women. I find women tend to be more sympathetic to the "poor men" side of things, but not as receptive to the in my opinion more important aspect of things which is challenging feminist dogma and the idea that women are more victimized than men.

Personally I haven't lost any friends over my beliefs on MR issues.

2013-04-30T01:41:18+00:00

I think it helps to have people you respect and look up to to serve as models. I'm rather new to MRA but I've been against circumcision for a few years now. Whenever I feel discouraged I think of people I admire in the intactivist movement such as Ron Low, Marilyn Milos, Brian Earp, and Steven Svboda. You can look at other champions of human rights from different movements as well. Whoever spoke the truth in the face of hatred and ridicule can be taken as a guide. You'll find many examples to draw strength from if you look.

creepingwolf · 2013-04-30T08:28:23+00:00

Before posting MRA things on facebook or other social media sites. I would try just bringing stuff up during normal conversation first if you haven't already. Usually it easier to communicate tone and intention during conversation than through the interwebs. Once your friends know where you area coming from you will be more comfortable with facebook posts. It will also help not to get crazy defensive when someone eventually says something negative.

2013-04-30T12:44:41+00:00

My advice would be:

If you are friends with feminists, watch them from afar before engaging with them. If they show strong disdain to the MRM, or talk about misandry not existing and such, you're probably facing people who are the bad kinds of feminist. I would not bother trying to persuade them unless you know that they're really reasonable.
If you do talk about gender equality with bad feminists - try not to give them ammo. They are likely to take anything you say and try to make you seem like a misogynist. Just be short, to the point, and probably try to focus on something positive and hard to argue with - and I'd recommend only going in to make one statement - and then not responding after that at all. They will likely try to bait you into arguments where they outnumber you. Make sure you can get out before they really start to attack.
Against many bad feminists - there is no point in trying to argue over feminism with them. They will twist definitions, disregard all logic, and resort to ad hominem attacks instead of being civil. As GirlWritesWhat has said, with some of these people - arguing with them is like sword-fighting a fart. If they're not willing to apply logic, and stick to their definitions - there's absolutely no point in talking with them.
If this sort of topic comes up in a work setting, tread carefully. If you do the same as in number 2 (stay positive, be pretty concise), most people will agree. Most people aren't the bad kinds of feminist (in fact, most people who call themselves feminists aren't even really acquainted with the ideology). If someone in your work place is a bad feminist - don't even try. Your job and reputation are worth more than the stupid shit storm they might try to bring down on you.

These are tips that I've learned over the last year - but my local coven of feminists are basically hateful people. I have lost many of them as friends because I cannot respect them, and they don't respect me. Your local feminists might be completely fine.

I err on the side of caution. Hopefully you don't have to and you can be more open about your beliefs.

2013-04-30T13:55:15+00:00

The way people tend to react should only serve to illustrate to you that mrm is needed. The more you open up and try to share your thoughts and feelings the more you will be dismissed outright. Which again, serves to reinforce the need for the mrm.

rightsbot · 2013-04-30T00:48:24+00:00

Post text automatically copied here. (Why?) (Report a problem.)

loose-dendrite · 2013-04-30T07:40:40+00:00

You may find that people you thought would ridicule you actually support you. Most of the people I know who actually know anything at all about men's rights love the ideas and hate the people in it. Others would just get sad because they love how tragic their life is (a coping mechanism, I imagine).

But while I don't particularly like a sizable minority of the MRM, I understand them and do like a lot of the people here. They're passionate and purposefully anti-PC but they don't actually hate women. People get hurt and people get frustrated censoring themselves for others who don't and will never accept them as brethren.

Title	I'm really afraid to speak out.
Author	blackstonesinger
Upvotes	18
Comments	10
Date	April 30, 2013 12:47 AM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/mensrights/comments/1ddmdc/im-really-afraid-to-speak-out/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/im-really-afraid-to-speak-out.1611633 https://theredarchive.com/post/1611633

Comments