TLDR; I love you.
Hello r/MensRights,
I am a woman and I understand that I will never know your struggle. The more I read in this subreddit, the more it saddens me what we have become.
You are the police man that saw me being scared and intimidated by strangers, that reached out to me and helped me get out.
You are the garbage collectors that make kids smile and do a wonderful job.
You are the friends that listened to me when no one else would.
You are my teacher that believed in me.
You are the people that have so much love to give and have to be so very scared to act.
You are brave.
In no way I mean to belittle you, for I am proud of you. I am proud I know people who stand up for their rights and for what they believe in.
I hear the way some friends talk about feminism and I see some of their points.
I hear the way some other friends talk about men's-rights and I also see their points.
Sometimes I'm truly saddened by the unwillingness of the people to listen.
The problem is not, that no one wants to talk, but very few want to listen.
Thank you for working on making the world a better place.
Thank you for being awesome dads that go the extra mile, even if the world is against you.
Thank you for still being loving and kind, even when people don't deserve it.
If you're having a rough day, please remember; I love you and you deserve to be happy.
I hope you have a good day and please don't give up <3
[–]red_philosopher 17 points18 points19 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]ChopperMcDoctor17 points [recovered] | Copy Link
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If you don't mind my asking, what are the points raised by feminists that resonate with you? I ask mostly because I'm hard pressed to imagine one that withstands serious scrutiny, even if on first blush and with the right framing, it sounds compelling.
[–]Rethgil 2 points3 points4 points (6 children) | Copy Link
[+]ChopperMcDoctor1 points [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link
This is a long one... and I haven't even touched all the topics.
I don't mind anyone asking and I have two categories in this regard; One is 'mostly female concerns' and the other one is 'mostly equal concerns'. This is in no way meant to say that the feminist points are exclusive to the female population, but the very specific angle might be. I'll try to enplane both if that's alright. (it's mostly two)
One
Safety: If you're alone as a female, men are scary. It's not a good thing no. And as I said in my post, I love men, but I don't love men because of what some of them did to me, but despite what some men did to me. I do not have a single female friend that has not been sexually assaulted or raped by a man. I also don't have a single friend who ever went to court, because they have been told, by the ones that should have listened to them, "you can't do that, because it's not worth it. You're not going to win this" or "you can't press charges, you don't want to ruin this mans life, right?" and that's fucking bullshit.
In the median (and I'm very sure, also in the average) men are a lot stronger than women in the median (and also the average, most likely). Which puts women at a physical disadvantage, if we run into problems. I don't consider myself to be exceptionally pretty, but I know the only reason I didn't get assaulted on my way home is my posture and my willingness to punch a fucker.
I realized, if a man has the intention of assaulting you (as a woman), he expects an easy target. If you show that you're willing and able to put up a fight, they won't bother. Now, you don't have to actually be able to fight that guy, you just need to make him believe it. Don't show fear.
I know men get assaulted, abused, raped and otherwise hurt by women too, but this specific point to me is in the feminist category, because of the specific setting. Men are more likely to get hurt by a woman in their own home and/or away from the public. So that would be a mens-right point.
Female hygiene products & health / Female anatomy: How are female hygiene products so high taxed?! It's not like we choose to bleed for a week every month or so. If we could I'm 99% sure, most of us would choose not to.
I can't even tell you the number I went to a gyno with "somethings wrong, but I don't know what" and the doctor telling me it's normal, that's just menstruation related stuff. After years, I found a doctor who actually listened to me, and we found out no, it's not normal.
Then there's the amount of people who think we choose to bleed and/or that that makes the female body disgusting. I honestly think that's a big problem of the US sex-ed crisis, but it leads to old men making policies and laws telling women what they can and can't have/do.
Then there's the "Why is he a stud, and she a whore if they sleep with the same amount of people?" thing. First of all it is no-ones business to judge that. If I want to fuck every single person, male or female, I know I'm gonna and no one, that's not directly involved (cause consent), gets to have any say in that. If I choose to stay a virgin for the rest of my life, also no one gets to judge me for this. This is the exact same point if the genders would be reversed but with the current climate we're in, it's more of a problem this way. (This one gets me so angry, I swear.)
Two
Military / Police force / Equal Choices: I think anyone who is capable of doing a job and applies, should be considered for a job. I don't think there should be different standards for men and women. Where I live military service is mandatory for the able-bodied male above a certain age. If you are not able-bodied or mentally able to serve, you have to do community service. If you can't do that you have to pay higher taxes for about 10 years (if my number's wrong, I'm sorry, but for a long time). In this specific set I think military service should be mandatory for all able-bodied people over the set age. (I also think that joining the military should be entirely optional, but the community service should be mandatory, but that's a discussion my country is having that's probably most comparable to the gun-policy discussion the US has)
Equal Pay: I think ANYONE should earn what they deserve. I am aware that negotiating is a skill, but I work in IT and I know I don't get paid the same as my peers with comparable education and experience. I'm not ok with that. I haven't found a solution for this to be honest, but I'm still looking.
The notion that everyone working the same-ish job should earn the same is a "good concept of thought", as is communism, but it doesn't work that way because we're humans and each person is their own, with their own strength and weaknesses.
Quotas: I don't think quotas are a good idea at all. The best thing that's going to come from a minimum quota of X kind of employee, are people that don't want the job but are forced into it, because their field has met the quota but another one hasn't. The worst thing that's going to come out of quotas are people that are highly unqualified for the job they have been hired for.
IF quotas should be established, especially under the mantle of equality, quotas need to be applied to ANY company of X size. This also includes Space travel, Military, Teaching & Mentoring, IT, Healthcare, Law and many others. Most likely you have met someone, especially in teaching, IT or healthcare, that just isn't right for their job, most likely for various reasons.
But imagine a hospital hiring X amount of female surgeons that only want to work 6 hours a day, because they have a family or other things that need their time, and that might not be as experienced because of that, as the male surgeon that has worked tirelessly in 70 hours workweeks, because he wanted to. Having things outside ones job that are important is a good thing, for all people, but that comes with certain limitations. In my opinion everyone needs to have the integrity to live with the consequences of their choices.
[–]gprime 2 points3 points4 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]ChopperMcDoctor1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[+]ChopperMcDoctor1 points [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link
Abortion: This is a very tricky one. I see the perspective of "it's a woman's body and no one should be able to take away her agency", but I think it's a lot more complicated than that. I don't think my opinion is necessarily right (or the best one), but I haven't found a better solution jet. In general, I think there is the "Scenario" with multiple possible settings. For this I'm assuming it's a heterosexual couple with an unplanned pregnancy;
Now each of these scenarios have their own problem, if the couple is not on the same page about the pregnancy. In general, I think you should not have intercourse (at all) if you're not willing to deal with the consequences. This to me does not mean 'If you have sex you need to be ready to be a mom', but if you have sex you need to be adult enough to have a conversation about 'what are we going to do, if we fuck up.'As a legal standpoint i think this would be a better solution, than what it is right now:
She can do that. Depending on different factors it should be decided if alimony is even in the realm of being discussed. I read about there not being any alimony in this situation, but after I slept on it i don't fully agree anymore. I think the better option would be for the body of the law to examine the situation and after taking the different situations into consideration, decided if an alimony claim can be upheld.
For factors in this decision, I think these topics should be thoroughly examined:
She can do that. In this regard, I'm sorry, but I don't think anyone besides the woman should get a say in that. I know it's hard and the man might be devastated by that, but I also know that if she didn't want a child it can have equally devastating consequences in addition of there being a child that might end up receiving the hatred of the mother.
She can do that too. If the father wants to, he should receive full custody without the scrutiny couples undergo in custody court or adoption processes. In all the people I was able to share a dialog with, a higher percentage have been abused by their mother than their father (yes, some fathers weren't in the picture, yes some of them not by their own choice or mistake). This leads me to the opinion that no father should be generally criminalized for being male.
As with any other construct of family, I think CPS and / or the respective service should be alert to any form of messages. In my opinion, CPS should in general be more cautious when examining a home, especially with the mother, as there are many parents that abuse their children where the kids are too scared to talk about it (Yes I know, not a gender issue, but I think it's important in context).
[–]mechkey550 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
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[–]DJ-Roukan 5 points6 points7 points (7 children) | Copy Link
[+]ChopperMcDoctor1 points [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link
Thank you for your reply.
I am infiniatly grateful for the men in my life, all of them. Either i learned from them or/and they gave me the love i needed to grow.
May i ask if you think its ok if i stick around this subreddit and maybe ask some seemingly stupid questions out of honest curiosity and concerns?
With the mrm i hold ot as with fandoms: morons will be morons and i dont think humans are capable of just being civil and nice.
If you ever need to talk, my dms are open <3
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[+]ChopperMcDoctor1 points [recovered] (9 children) | Copy Link
I understand your point. If its ok for you i'd like to discuss?
Funnly enough my SO ticks all your boxes and we're still together.
My general expectation of a decent human, no matter the gender or what in between, is that the person is honest and understands that the quote 'my freedom ends where it inhabits another persons freedom'. I also expect a person to be open for discussion and being able to civily come to the conclusion that you will not agree.
May i ask what i could have done better?
[–]RoryTate 1 point2 points3 points (8 children) | Copy Link
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[–]Rethgil 1 point2 points3 points (2 children) | Copy Link
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[+]ChopperMcDoctor1 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
Thank you. We're out there. I hope you will find her <3
I hope i don't overstep a line here, but what i found out sorts out the crazy on the first date is to try and have some really deep and 'odd' conversations. (All the ones you're not supposed to talk about: family? Mens/Womans rights, etc.)
[–]Rethgil 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link