What is a right?

kanuk876 · 2010-08-18T02:29:15+00:00

I don't like the term "right".

Perhaps it's better to ask, "What kind of world do we want to live in?" ... no, still a little off...

"What society ground rules are required in order for us to voluntarily participate in said society?"

Perhaps we can condense it down to a single word: "Respect"

Participation in society is voluntary. I'm not talking about jail, I'm talking about Big-Brothers/Big-Sisters. I'm talking about becoming a teacher, or a soccer coach, a mentor.

In order for people to want to participate in a society, they must feel society respects them.

If you look at just about every Men's Rights issue, there is a lack of respect at the core of the issue. Let's list some off:

draft - the man is seen as a resource in war, not a valuable and contributing member of society. A drafted man is valued for his weight in flesh, self-mobilization, and his ability to shoot a gun with minimal supervision. A far cry from roles like father, leader, teacher, mentor.
circumcision - is it possible to disrespect a person's sexuality more than tying them down to a board and cutting off their erogenous tissue? The next step is full-on castration, which is designed to render the victim a drone -- a worker and nothing more. And more than a few men have been rendered eunuchs from circumcisions that went slightly further than intended.
family court - is there any respect for fathers in family court today? How about in cases of adoption against the father's wishes? Yeah...

I could go on, but I'm starting to get bored.

My point is, take away the word "right" and replace it with something like "protected by ground rules which encourage people to feel society is respect-worthy and therefore worthy of a person's investment and participation."

Men don't have "rights" today... and what's happening? We've lost respect for society and are turning away from it.

This is kindergarten-level stuff.

Edit: yet somehow we forget it when we grow up.

kloo2yoo · 2010-08-18T02:30:29+00:00

this could get deep.

the religious view is that a right is god-given.

Strictly speaking, the US constitution recognized and protected rights, rather than granted them; it limited the government from intruding upon those rights.

obviously, not everyone is from the US, and not everyone believes that there is a god. there is also a humanist view, then, that humans have rights just because they're human. But who is to say that that is true, and who is supposed to define what they are?

I do not know.

stemgang · 2010-08-18T02:58:02+00:00

As a recovering Randroid, I'm tempted to suggest that all legitimate rights are based on the idea that every individual has a right of self-ownership by virtue of his humanity. The problem with deriving rights from self-ownership is that if you don't accept self-ownership as axiomatic, everything derived from it falls apart.

lanana · 2010-08-18T05:02:04+00:00

While a "right" may be harder to define, i think that for the case of Men's Rights, what's most productive is to focus on things that are institutionalized inequalities or at least things that have a cause and effect that can be identified, or a right that society is actively denying to men. There are plenty of the above that can be listed. The problem with the things you list are that it is unclear even how to accomplish them. You have absolute control over whether you commit suicide or not. Also, I would bet that their are things like that with a higher percentage of women. I would bet that cutting is more common among women. Does that mean that it's men's fault that more women cut? Or that I should demand that the cutting rate be equal among men and women? I think that like suicide society should do all it can to reduce the rates among men and women, and setting this up as a men's rights issue detracts from the many legitimate issues where society is actively oppressing men. Also, I think everyone in society would agree with the things you list. I know I wish men had the same life expectancy. I don't want to be the one left old and alone! And as far as objectification of both genders. Well, I imagine people have been judging each other for as long as there have been people.

Basically it's hard to fight for a equality, when it is not clear what causes the inequality in the first place

etherspirit · 2010-08-18T07:51:04+00:00

Everything that has to do with equality under the law is a right. Equality of rights, opportunities. These are by far the easiest things to argue. For example, women who are charged with first degree murder are hardly given equal punishment as men. This is a quantifiable discrepancy that can't be explained by much more than gender discrimination. The fact that citizens with penises have to register for the draft, but people with vaginas don't. Etc. Etc. Etc. The softer issues may arguably be more important, but it's much harder to argue over unfairness let alone construct a solution.

stemgang · 2010-08-18T05:08:05+00:00

Only negative rights exist. You have the right to do anything that does not infringe on another person's freedom and property.

The concept of negative liberty refers to freedom from interference by other people.

Positive rights, by contrast, are immoral, because they imply that someone else is obligated to provide for you. In other words, your demands ("needs") justify enslaving another person.

For example, every person has a (negative) right not to be raped, beaten, or robbed.

But no person has a (positive) right to force a doctor to provide medical care, or to force a farmer to provide food.

AnnArchist · 2010-08-18T18:14:37+00:00

Men's rights and mens issues are used interchangeably

cryptogirl · 2010-08-18T03:00:38+00:00

A right is something to which someone is entitled.

lambso3 · 2010-08-18T04:10:39+00:00

There are no such thing as 'rights'. There are only agreements. As soon as someone stops agreeing with you, you immediately lose your so-called rights, just as men today have lost their civil rights. Women have stopped agreeing that men have them. Manginas have stopped agreeing to honor them. So men no longer possess them.

Rights are imaginary constructs until they are enforced by men.

What you're referring to are agreements between men-- 'rights.' Since men are the ONLY ONES who can enforce these agreements, women have NO 'RIGHTS' APART FROM MEN. As soon as men stop saying women have X and Y rights, they immediately stop enjoying the benefit of these agreements.

Today, feminism has deluded women into thinking they actually have 'rights' that can never be erased or broken. Women think they can get away with murder because pussified manginas will allow it.

But a day will come when men will grow a fucking collective spine and realize that the ONLY FUCKING REASON women have ANY POWER is because WE. ALLOW. THEM. TO. HAVE. IT.

As soon as men decide they don't have it-- BAM* women INSTANTLY stop having that power.

What are they going to do to enforce their rights apart from men? NOT A FUCKING THING. You think any man is scared of a threat from a woman? NO. What they are scared of is the BY PROXY threat of MEN acting on BEHALF OF WOMEN.

Title	What is a right?
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	5
Comments	63
Date	August 18, 2010 2:09 AM UTC (15 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/d2eba/what_is_a_right/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/what-is-a-right.1048019 https://theredarchive.com/post/1048019

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