Why are we so divided?

Eleusis713 · 2022-11-16T19:46:17+00:00

Rarely I see someone truly open to discuss and listen to the problems the other group faces, but from my knowledge, both groups fundamentally just want to be heard and ideally create a world of kindness, compassion and support, and that can be created only if both groups are willing to sit down and listen to each other.

There are a lot of "enlightened centrism" people who believe MRAs and feminists are two sides of the same coin and that they should be working together. What you're saying here encroaches upon this mindset. The issue is that this just isn't true because it completely ignores the various asymmetries and power differential between MRAs and feminists.

Feminism is the dominant cultural narrative and "women's issues" are at the forefront of politics. Meanwhile, MRA viewpoints and issues facing men are often ridiculed and dismissed whenever they're brought up. We also have to acknowledge the crucial role some parts of feminism have played in creating and perpetuating many issues facing men today. There's nothing comparable in the reverse, MRAs are not responsible for creating or perpetuating various "women's issues".

You cannot solve a problem without identifying the cause of the problem. As such, you simply cannot solve many men's issues without acknowledging the role some feminists, some women's organizations, and some parts of feminist philosophy have played in creating and perpetuating many issues facing men today. This is why many MRAs criticize feminism. They're not doing it to reflexively lash out at "the other team", they're doing it to get people to acknowledge basic facts in order to actually solve problems.

Additionally, many feminists are not merely advocating for women's rights like MRAs are for men's rights. Many feminists are also advocating for an ideology and worldview. They're viewing everything through an oppressor vs oppressed mindset which MRAs don't agree with. These are two broad groups with entirely different epistemologies. These differences in foundational beliefs, the power differential between them, and incentive structure for feminism to maintain the cultural perception of disproportionate disadvantage, makes communication / collaboration between feminists and MRAs extremely difficult if not impossible in many cases.

MRAs have tried many times to start a dialog with feminists and it has rarely ever been productive. In the cases where it has been (such as Cassie Jaye making The Red Pill documentary), reasonable feminists don't usually keep the label of "feminist" for very long.

Dramatic-Essay-7872 · 2022-11-16T21:09:00+00:00

Mod of AskFeminists

FEMINIST MANIFESTO

MRA FAQ

i think there are radicals + trolls on both sides heating up the situation...

63daddy · 2022-11-16T20:00:55+00:00

MRAs want equal rights for men. Feminism actively advocates women be advantaged and men be disadvantaged. Obviously, there’s a huge divide and clash in these goals.

tonyhasareddit · 2022-11-16T20:42:44+00:00

Look no further than the fact that the leading feminist subreddits delete and ban anyone that doesn't fall 100000% in line with the group speak, and even on posts that try to start a genuine discussion about topics like this, anyone that actually answers honestly gets attacked by the mods (who in my experience have proven to be pretty horrible, argumentative, hypocritical, hate filled people in general).

They don't want discussion, and they sure as hell don't want equality. The SANE ones do, but you won't find them on a feminist subreddit, because those types of communities have only become hiveminds for people to spread their never ending hatred for men.

On the other side of the coin, I believe if a feminist came here and - respectfully - tried to have a discussion about topics like this, they would be welcomed with open arms, so long as they don't fall back on the typical talking points that always seem to center on how evil men are and how every bad thing that ever happened in the world was the fault of men, even if it was a woman that did it.

skcuf2 · 2022-11-16T20:46:02+00:00

MRA is essentially a counter to feminism. Feminism used to have a purpose, depending on whether you think men and women should be treated equally. If you want equality, that goal has essentially been achieved, and then some. Women now have the ability to vote, work, buy land, etc. Under the law there is no real difference.

The differences fall within the nuances that have come in the latest wave of feminism. It has now become 'we want women to be more powerful than men and have no negatives.' This has led to women having the ability to essentially destroy men's lives with false rape accusations, divorcing them and taking half of the stuff, leaving with the children and garnishing the man's wages without letting him see his children, etc. All of this while men are required to register for the draft, still expected to treat women to meals on dates, and expected to still maintain traditional masculine roles while being told they're toxic for maintaining masculinity.

MRA came about to essentially stop the bleeding that is the erosion of men's rights by overpowering of women. The current essential claim is that women are oppressed by men and instead of bringing everyone up, we need to bring men down. This leads to a double standard where speaking up for men can even be detrimental to your career and get you banned on social media. A twitter post that says, "Why doesn't Google have a doodle for 'International Men's Day'?" is seen as hateful, even though there is a google for International Woman's Day and having one for both is equality.

In its essence, MRA is mainly men and designed with a logical goal in place. Feminism is mainly women and run by an emotional agenda. The two are essentially arguments from an old bitter married couple where the woman has been 'right' for so long that the man has been beaten down and he's finally sick of her shit. All decisions cannot be made by emotion and all decisions can (albeit probably shouldn't) be made by logic. This is why men concede more points to women. It's logically easier to just agree to the illogical emotional fallacies a woman uses in argument than continue drawing out the argument, unless the issue is important.

I doubt you'll read this entire post. Anyone who can actually view feminism as having valid arguments in the current state isn't thinking through the end effects of any further implementation of the policies requested by the movement.

_BlueShark87 · 2022-11-16T20:47:21+00:00

It’s because most people think helping one side would be detrimental to you and they’re probably right. I can see rad fems or MRAs taking the advantage and running. We need a much more integrated movement, a bridge between the two movements to ever form trust. Besides some people hate women and some hate men. And unfortunately those people like to go to one of these movements.

Title	Why are we so divided?
Author	red_metro
Upvotes	5
Comments	14
Date	November 16, 2022 7:39 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/yx3shf/why_are_we_so_divided/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/why-are-we-so-divided.1140059 https://theredarchive.com/post/1140059

Comments