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Revorob
[–]AvgGuy101 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Marriage 2.0 just doesn't provide any benefit to most men but it sure has the potential to ruin their lives.
[–]Revorob[S] 5 points6 points7 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Couldn't agree more. I basically came to the same belief long ago. The author of the post seems to have summarised exactly why not to marry.
[–]chavelah 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
The author of ths post makes some strange assumptions - the big one being that married women don't work, and are sitting home not-cooking and not-cleaning instead of out earning a wage.
Nobody should get married who doesn't want to get married, but it strikes that guys who are laying out the reasons why they don't want to cite the fear of being unfairly divorced (quite reasonable), and then go on to assume that they are going to be getting themselves divorced from June Cleaver's evil twin, which makes no sense to me. Most households can't survive on one paycheck.
[–]MartialWay 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Most households can't survive on one paycheck.
I don't understand your critique here...most men do fine supporting themselves in a single household. Or they do unless they're being forced to suppport someone elses household.
He can support himself quite well on his own, he wants to get married for lifetime commitment, companionship and support. Those are no longer being commonly offered - Grandpas marriage was a good deal, but that's no longer on the table.
If they're no longer offering what you want, why they hell would you sign up to get hammered in family court? Marriage was a once great institution, but we don't have it anymore, merely it's rotting corpse. And the putrescence of that corpse is actively corrosive to healthy relationships. What once helped to stabilize families now actively works to de-stabilize them. Modern marriage is like giving your wife a quarter million dollar signing bonus to break up the family, take the kids and shack with some other guy. And people respond to these financial incentives...they're responding in droves. Even if they don't go through to actual divorce process, the mere fear of this horrific Sword of Damocles makes it hard to hard to maintain an equal and healthy relationship.
"Yes dear"
[–]chavelah 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I'm saying understand what you're saying "no" to, which in most cases is a two-earner household and the chance to have kids. "No" might still be the right answer for an individual guy (or a drove of guys), but there's no need to create the anti-June-Cleaver archetype. The core negative reasoning behind MGTOW seems to be risk aversion, and that reason is sufficient unto itself. The core positive reason seems to be maximizing personal freedom, and that reason also holds water without casting women (and children) as the bogeyman.
A man who doesn't marry because he's got June Cleaver standards for a spouse and hasn't met a woman who can live up to them is not a MGTOW - he's a single man who is very selective. Nothing wrong with that, either.
Grandpa's marriage does still exist, of course, but nobody can count on it anymore. I can't count on Grandma's marriage either. I'm very pro-marriage, but I understand why some aren't.
[–]MartialWay 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Well thought out post. Here is my counter-argument
Grandpa's marriage does still exist, of course, but nobody can count on it anymore.
Commitment and stability were some of the defining features of "Grandpas marriage". If those things are taken away, and replaced with the everpresent threat of a soul crushing divorce, you don't have "Grandpas marriage".
Yes, exceptional people have still achieved "Grandpas Marriage", but that's not the same thing as having an institution of marriage that an average guy, with average social skills can expect to go into, work hard, be a good person and get a good deal. The current system chews up guys like that.
[–]Sadiebb 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I don't cook or clean but my husband never complains. Maybe because of the sex?
Or maybe because he married a woman with a JOB!
[–]Lowyfer 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Long time idler... First time commenter here.
Author comes off as pretty jaded. My alarm bells always go off when an MRA or feminist are so passionate with sweeping comments that it feels like they have been damaged in some way and their activism is lashing out since they can not overcome who ever or what ever the primary aggressor was.
The sticking point for me was the comment about women not cooking, cleaning, or being sexy.
My american wife went to cooking school and still cooks the majority of meals even though now she works a full time corporate job. She also does more than an equal amount of housework. I pay more than an equal amount of house hold bills including most "dates" as a balancing mechanism for my increased salary (she started her professional career later). Finally she is a hellbeast in the sack. I have a hard time thinking of what I have not or could not try with her.
To increase my small sample size with more anecdotal....
The other couples in my social circle have equivalent women (though I can not speak to hellbeast in sack status).
So while I of course agree with the ludicrous divorce benefits that exist for women and even my own wife jokes: "you can't divorce me, you do not have a return on your investment yet"..... I just do not agree that there are no good women left out there so marriage is useless to men.
Caveat: childless couple, so your mileage may vary.
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[–]AvgGuy101 4 points5 points6 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Revorob[S] 5 points6 points7 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]chavelah 2 points3 points4 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]MartialWay 2 points3 points4 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]chavelah 1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]MartialWay 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Sadiebb 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Lowyfer 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link