Help

Red-Curious · 2017-07-09T01:59:58+00:00

I didn't even need to get to the third paragraph to start seeing BPD here. And yes, BPD usually develops from people who have been abused as a child. It is a coping mechanism whereby they create a detachment from reality to deal with their pain and trauma. They have an almost literal out of body experience whereby many of their outbursts feel to them like they're a third person in the room watching something exciting on TV with a bucket of popcorn - because that's how they dealt with the abuse of the trauma when they were younger.

I deal with borderlines on a weekly basis. When negotiating with borderlines in my profession, I have found that the most effective tool is fogging. Here's how my typical communication pattern goes, which works with anyone, but especially borderlines:

I see your point. I agree with you when you say ___.
Here's something I can do to address that problem.
If I work on addressing that problem, would you agree to work on this problem too: ___?

There is ALWAYS some truth in what they're saying, no matter how irrational and deluded they are. Borderlines escalate problems when they feel like they're not being understood. It's the same reason kids yell and scream all the time: If I don't get what I want, maybe saying it louder will get through to them.

Maintaining frame is also huge. Borderlines (especially ones with histrionic features) thrive on high-intensity emotions. The more emotional you get, the more emotional she gets. That emotion is a drug to her, so she'll do anything to get a reaction out of you, and it is totally unsatisfying when you keep your cool. When I'm in conference rooms at court and borderlines are screaming in my face and literally bouncing all over the room because they don't like my proposal, I just keep smiling. When they're done: "I see your point. I agree when you say __. Here's something I can do to address that problem. If I have my client do that, would you agree to work on this problem: __?"

If you're not interested in negotiating anything back for yourself (i.e. you just want to calm her down), here's a trick that works with my non-borderline wife. I would hope it works with a borderline too.

She's raging mad, yelling at you, crashing dishes against the wall, etc.
Ignore her words; just go hug her until she calms down (usually about 15 seconds); put her head side-by-side with yours so she can't see your face
- If she tries to talk, let her, but don't respond.
- If she tries to pull away, hold her tight. Her efforts to pull away are a test of your frame.
Lean your head back, look her in the eye, brush her hair away from her cheek and put your palm gently on her cheek.
- Don't let go of the hug with the other hand or you may lose control and she'll pull away.
With your hand on her head, pull her head toward you and kiss her cheek where your palm was.
Lean back again, look her in the eyes and say, "I love you and appreciate that you are intensely passionate over this issue. In this moment, you are over-reacting and I would like to continue talking when we can have productive discussion."
Give her a kiss on the forehead and walk away.
- if she lets you go, the next time you see her in a calmer environment you HAVE TO re-raise the issue; this time it will be on your terms. Have an action-plan ready to go for how to solve the conflict, showing simultaneously that: (1) you care about her concerns; (2) you understand her perspective without validating the thought itself or how she handled the situation [don't underestimate the importance of this in any argument]; (3) you will take charge of the situation so she doesn't have to be the one to worry about it anymore; and (4) her over-reaction was not going to solve the problem. This is a perfect quadfecta (and if I really took the time to think about it, I could probably come up with 2-3 more benefits), but I feel like 99% of men miss the opportunity by forgetting to re-raise the issue on their own terms.
- if she follows you, still yelling and screaming: repeat all of the above until she doesn't know what to do. If that doesn't work or ...
- if she doesn't let you leave in the first place ("No! I'm not over-reacting. This is seriously an important issue. How can you not see that?!?" Proceeds to block the door.) ... fog. "I agree that this issue is important. You're right, we should be spending more attention on this issue. I actually have an idea for how we can address the issue," and then pull an action plan out of your butt, even if it's a crappy one. If she doesn't like it, let her make some adjustments. The point isn't to come up with the perfect solution; it's to show her how idiotic her over-reaction was when you could come up with a solution to the problem literally on the spot and you can all tweak the solution from there. This has the same benefits as the first option ("if she lets you go ...") except #1, as it usually comes off as you brushing the issue aside quickly, which is outweighed by the other benefits.

Now, if your wife really does have BPD, she may never get to the point of actually talking about it, even in that last step, or even after several iterations of this hug-kiss-calm-kiss method. Why? Because she isn't looking for answers, she's looking to feel something - anything. For BPDs, negative emotions are better than no emotions. As a result, they stay enraged even when there's no reason to do so. At this point, the better option is to engage in a little emotional redirection.

Start with my HKCK method (suppose it's a 3rd or so interation of it in a single fight)
When you get to the part of kissing her on the cheek, go for her lips instead.
Repeat the "calm" part
Instead of a kiss on the forehead, go back for her lips
Push her against a wall (with your embracing hand still behind her, now between the wall and her back)
Restrain her against the wall and stare her in the eyes
Kiss periodically and see how she responds
Escalate to sex as appropriate

I've never tested this second part, but from what I know about how borderlines think, it seems like it would actually work. You probably won't have any actual physical desire for her in the midst of her craziness, so you're probably not going to want to do any of this. That's the exact problem though: you're not an adequate passion-sparring-partner for her. She wants someone whose emotions ramp up like hers, who can be crazy and feed into all of her turbulence. So, if you have no other way of calming her down, redirect that negative passion and aggression into something positive that she will enjoy. Although it makes no logical sense to me whatsoever, and I've never been a fan of it, borderlines love angry, passionate, rough sex. I'm not saying this is your wife, or maybe she's the exception among BPD women, but if she follows the norm, redirecting her explosive outburst into angry, rough sex is the answer. The dopamine rush afterward will calm her right down and she'll forget what was getting her so upset, often times even realizing that she had no real reason to be upset in the first place.

Now, you know I couldn't leave this one unaddressed. When you use the Bible/God as a manipulative tool it comes off like a kid screaming, "I'm going to tell Dad!" My son does this all the time when his sisters aren't doing what he wants: "I'm going to tell Dad! You'd better start helping me clean the living room!" That totally undermines the respect and authority you've been developing. Yes, God is a higher authority. But God delegated that authority to you in Ephesians 5 and (more notably) 1 Cor. 11:3, "the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man."

If you've ever had a management-type position, you'll know what it's like when you delegate authority to someone, but they keep running back to you saying, "They're not listening to me!" Your response is usually, "I gave you the authority to deal with it because I know you can handle it. Now go handle it." If you're acting like that employee to God, using his authority rather than the authority he gave you, that's not respecting the management style he established. If your wife sees that you're not respecting God's management, why should she respect yours or your interpretation of God's Word in the first place?

If she really is ignorant of what the Bible says about respect and submission, an argument is not the time to bring that up. You should read 1 Cor. 11 or Ephesians 5 together as part of a joint devotional or couples Bible study.

Not going to go into it here ... but do you disciple your wife? Do you have a firm grasp on Jesus' established pattern for disciple-making? If so, are you implementing it inside and outside your marriage?

I've found that 99% of problems Christians face are resolved by developing a lifestyle of disciple-making, rather than merely the advice received or given through discipleship or application thereon.

SalvificSloth · 2017-07-09T02:03:31+00:00

A major problem where you stand currently is that you lack authority in your wife's eyes, so when you explicitly present biblical arguments for roles in your relationship she sees you as overstepping your rights.

My advice is conventional in MRP circles: lift weights. Work on projects. Go build something. Read. Take care of your house, be excellent at work, strive to be your best self. Most importantly, don't do it because you want to control your wife. Do it because a Christian man should strive for strength, honor, and excellence. Find other men who are pursuing the same ideals and start a Bible study.

Become an authority not just in your wife's eyes, but in reality.

As you do that, find a church that values biblical gender roles and start attending worship there. A pastor, especially one who's good at preaching, will carry the authority that might begin to change your wife's mind. If she hears him and starts to think about household roles, then you have the opportunity to live into biblical manhood and change the atmosphere of your home. Eventually, you should be seen as an authority similar to the pastor, but until then he can make a real difference in your home life.

Improve yourself because you were made in God's image. You were lovingly, carefully crafted by His own hand, so why shouldn't you live up to your full potential? Push yourself hard physically, mentally, and spiritually, and you will see the Holy Spirit work.

Nyquil-Junkie · 2017-07-09T23:19:07+00:00

Ive been married for 30 years. I swallowed the pill about 6 years ago. My wife has no idea what the RP is but it has been the source of much conflict in our marriage. .....I am painted as the villain now because I don't submit to her.

She married a doormat, now that you are no longer a doormat, she's angry that she is shipwrecked in a marriage where she isn't the boss.

Sounds like an unholy alliance to me.

rocknrollchuck · 2017-07-10T00:47:34+00:00

How To Lead A Wife That Doesn't Let You

The time frame will be longer than what's stated in the article because she will stick to the Righteous One stance as long as possible to maintain control.

Title	Help
Author	CUTigrr
Upvotes	7
Comments	32
Date	July 8, 2017 3:49 PM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/RPChristians
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/RPChristians/comments/6m1o82/help/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/RPChristians/help.302216 https://theredarchive.com/post/302216

Comments