Defecting from MGTOW to TRP

bokehnikon · 2016-03-10T21:15:12+00:00

There's probably a difference between guys out there that are quietly MGTOW and guys that have a need to go on forums and proclaim they're MGTOW.

monsieurhire2 · 2016-03-10T22:52:58+00:00

One point your neglecting when criticizing MGTOWs who are into P4P is that men who go after women for sex and relationships are still spending time, something more precious than money because they can never get it back, as well as money. It works likes this:

If you chase women, you're spending time and money chasing them;
If you self-improve to attract women, you're still spending time and money on yourself to attract women;
If you self-improve for the sake of self-improvement, there is a VERY strong possibility that you may in denial about your true motivations. In any case, you will attract women, and be tempted, at which point you may given in and wind up . . . . spending time and money on women.

Also, in addition to time and money, you're also spending additional energy being an emotional tampon. This means psychological energy caring about a plate's problems, about a plate, etc. etc.

For guys who have been there done that and are fed up with women, but still like sex, they basically can avoid all this by paying for a prostitute. They can have the sex, and not give two shits about the woman. They don't have to even pretend to care or feel guilty for not caring, or worry about hurting the woman because it is after all, must a consensual financial transaction, excepting of course, cases where the woman is trafficked.

But yeah, I get your beef. MGTOW is very unnatural for most men. I'd say it appeals to men who don't have strong sexual tendencies, like guys who are borderline asexual, or really intellectual guys. Some guys are so asexual they don't even have to call themselves MGTOW, they just go their own way. Other guys aspire to be asexual because they're more interested in intellectual pursuits, and they find the constant nagging of their sex drive annoying and wasteful.

GuitarMatt99 · 2016-03-10T23:17:48+00:00

Not really defecting though,it fits more to say that your "switching".

No need to see the hostility from both sides. Tired of spinning plates & fucking around?Go MGTOW for awhile.Becoming Chad instead of MGTOW to pump and dump? Go TRP. We're both allies in the manosphere.

MGTOWs at a bare minimum aren't feeding TBP&feminazi machines.A massive improvement from the Beta Slave Cucks if you ask me.

On the topic of escorts,its not that bad.At the bare minimum,it smashes the pussy pedestal with a sledgehammer since its no longer such a "glorified act of divine women that they give scraps to betas".Its their call if they want to keep going with escorts or not.

One thing i consider escorts to be are "baby steps" at smashing the pussy pedestal + at least attaining some abundance mentality.This part is more TRP now.Once your SMV is so high,your worships to the Temple of Iron has given you its rewards,your career $$ has skyrocketed & your game has massively improved,its your time to take the next steps from escorts(you paying them to have mad s3xorz) to plates(them paying YOU just to fuck you + doing everything they damn can to please you). If MGTOWs don't want to put in all the work,except for the financial work,its fine,its their call,and its better instead of spending BB cuck slave shit since even "expensive dinners in expensive as hell restaurants" cost more than an escort's time.

I do get annoyed though when MGTOWs use the title MGTOW as an excuse to not improve(hence why i lurk the TRP sub more).Just cause your MGTOW,doesn't mean your gonna neglect yourself.The Halo-Effect is so fucking real,not just in plating but also in the workplace.For starters,HRs(the "bouncers" of corporateland) would be way easier to befriend & turn into an ally to ask favors from if your SMV is higher.This can mean the difference between getting an idiotic feminazi bitch out vs you getting thrown out & having to look for another job.True,both TRP & MGTOW would easily save alot of money when not a cent is spent on entitled princesses,but i'd rather spend only 2 weeks working for my sexy-ass Tracking Point DMR instead of months-years because i don't get promotions that much cause no halo-effect.

NeoreactionSafe · 2016-03-10T21:34:36+00:00

As I see it there are two dimensions:

X-Axis - Frame (MGTOW) which is basically about establishing ego boundries that separate who you are as an individual from the wider social sphere.
Y-Axis - Game (PUA) is the wider social sphere where you develop the ability to manipulate others so that you have influence that is to your benefit.

The fully realized Alpha has both of these dimensions fully developed and the Beta has not developed either dimension.

So there is no sequential path in Red Pill where you go from A to B to C in order so the self improvement occurs in multiple areas at once.

Anyway... good you realized there is more to life than Frame.

leftajar · 2016-03-11T07:27:13+00:00

MGTOW's differ from redpillers not in beliefs, but in risk tolerance and willingness to participate in society. There's nothing wrong with deciding, "yeah, I want to date women and pay taxes."

[deleted] · 2016-03-11T01:30:45+00:00

MGTOW: Highlighting women's lack of accountability with "pussy pass" examples. Bitter and angry

TRP: Becoming the man that women break rules to fuck. A man who exploits the reality we live in rather then bemoan it

subtle_nonthesist · 2016-03-11T14:36:53+00:00

You know a guy has serious denial issues when he claims he is not paying for the sex but for them to go away. Yeah right! Whatever!! As if the guy is having to swat all the the women off of him like flies in a swamp. Because if that were the case, he would not be paying for the sex in the first place.

I think you misunderstood this. Paying for her to go away is a comparison with having a wife. Given that women and men are so different, she's not really your friend. That leaves sex. Except : the wife gets to leech off of your hard work for LIFE. Especially in lifetime alimony states like California (Cesar Milan's suicide attempt after a $30k per month for life alimony court order comes to mind).

So the "paying her to go away" part is merely a paraphrasing of "why buy the cow when you only need the milk", it is not some bragging related to having multiple sex partners.

There are genuine MGTOW-ers out there who have realized that the game is rigged and are silently walking away. There are TFLs who are MGTOWs out there. There are people who got divorce-raped or suffered from domestic violence and were essentially pushed into MGTOW out there.

The essential difference between TRP and MGTOW is like that between being an extrovert and being an introvert. TRP, generally speaking, aims to improve your engagement with the world. MGTOW, generally speaking, seek to reduce their engagement with the world.

I'm happy to be MGTOW + definitely encourage the use of prostitutes where legal to handle the biological imperative to reproduce so that you can focus on self-improvement instead. It's amazing how little I think of women once I've ejaculated. I saw a recent thread on ELI5 that explained this in terms of the biochemicals involved. I really get to think, for a change, and focus on what I genuinely want to do. Hence, I concluded that when you're horny, you should get out of that state ASAP. Wank to porn, call your prostitute, whatever. It allows you to be a man, and to DO things, to change the world, even, if you set your mind to it. It's hard to be a Tesla or Da Vinci, who supposedly could sublimate their sexual energy into productive and creative use. Normal men need to do something about the sexual urges.

When women judge only 20% of males to be "alpha" or whatever, and if one struggles to "improve myself", i.e., pander to pussy, trust me : you are wasting a lot of time seeking women's validation, even if you call her a "plate" or whatever. There's some denial involved here about putting pussy on a pedestal / chasing pussy. The guy who blatantly uses prostitutes is actually better off. It's just much more efficient. BTW, self-improvement can mean : reading philosophy, creating things etc; Lifting / hitting the gym is not the only means to self-improvement, in case it's not obvious. Nothing against working out, esp. if you're really doing it for yourself. I try to follow a 10-push-ups-right-now-whenever-I-fee- like-it practice myself, which has made a huge difference.

Hope you see my perspective...I'm 42 years old, BTW.

FLFTW16 · 2016-03-11T00:35:46+00:00

I adhere to the maxim "NO ENEMIES TO THE RIGHT." I urge you to adopt this view as well: the left is the enemy. Feminism, progressivism, SJWs, all of it. ANYONE who speaks truth to power--or opposes the left, or behaves in a way that degrades their institutional power--is my friend. I have nothing bad to say about MGTOW because they ignore the pussy cartel and therefore degrade its value.

A man who spends 5 or 10 years going his own way is a man who didn't bend the knee, didn't validate sluts, didn't spend his cash dating or marrying or supporting women, and in all likelihood spent his time bettering himself or at the very least displayed the option to not give a fuck about women and relationships. Even if he later wants a relationship, during his time as MGTOW when he was off the market women had one less admirer. Each one of us makes a difference and his example is noticed by other men and more importantly by boys who silently sponge up examples of behavior to emulate.

DforDeadpool · 2016-03-11T09:52:00+00:00

I think P4P is not creepy for every man. There are hopeless BP beta neckbeard virgins who fall in love with escorts and there are cool, successful men who treat seeing escorts as a hobby. To me, when I'm too occupied with my life and I don't want to deal with women's bullshit, I occasionally go fuck an escort. Because you get what you paid for. Usually an hour full of hardcore fucking. It clears my mind. If I go out and pick up women, obviously I don't need it and I don't spend money on escorts.

Yet, to be honest; blow-up dolls, pocket vaginas, VR porns and wet dreams of fucking androids is just too fucking creepy for me.

prodigy2throw · 2016-03-11T16:01:10+00:00

There's a difference between giving up because you fail and giving up because it's stupid. I get the feeling MGTOW are of the latter.

"Bro I could totally get pussy on tap, I just choose not to"

Faggots

[deleted] · 2016-03-10T22:06:19+00:00

I find many of the mgtow channels on YouTube interesting.. Seems to be more of a balance between the two

whisky1111 · 2016-03-10T23:38:22+00:00

I fall somewhere between MGTOW and TRP. On one hand I agree with the MGTOWs that most modern women aren't worth the hassle, on the other hand I agree with TRP that playing "the game" with women can be a lot of fun sometimes.

stawek · 2016-03-11T07:24:37+00:00

Mgtow is based on a false assumption that a man can chose to not play.

70% of your wealth is taken away in taxes and given to (mostly) women in various ways.

We are all cucks. Trp at least tries to cuck others back.

SCROTAL-SACK · 2016-03-12T00:55:28+00:00

It seems some of the stuff you read went way over your head. They pay prostitutes because there's lower risk of knocking them up, or getting accused of rape or whatever. And it gives them their sex fix for those that need it.

There are losers out there who call themselves mgtow because they can't get women. But they're delusional. mgtow actually don't want to get into relationships or dating. A lot of them are guys with other interests, prefer to avoid risks to live a happy life, or who have been through the meat grinder of divorce court.

You're slipping into shaming territory with the "they obviously can't get laid" stuff. Thats the sort of shit women come out with. Mgtow are just guys doing their own thing.

Why is it a problem to you that there are some men who aren't interested in pursuing sex/dating?

GuitarMatt99 · 2016-03-11T03:50:07+00:00

I am not disowning MGTOW as much as going to the RP sites. It was just what I needed for a while. They're/we're all on the same page as far as the red pill. And like you say, at least they're not feeding the SJWs or gold diggers of the world.

One thing I could not stand were the inaccurate hatchet jobs on MGTOW by such as Matt Forney or that dufus Paul Elam, etc. The fact is there are lots of men who are not the "permavirgins" that Forney tried to paint them as.

Basically both were using the Catalogue of Feminist Shaming tactics. Which I'll admit my OP veered a little too far in the side of. On the other hand, I was not buying it when some MGTOWs they were calling PUAs "pussy beggars."

I appreciate all of the posts. And to be honest, I agree with the pro-MGTOW posts here too. For I only got my daily dose of MGTOW for years! It's just time for me to RP Reddit forums instead of the MGTOW. Because I've overdosed on the great and not so great content of their forums. I am thankful that in the aftermath of Nacho blowing up his forum that 3 more eventually took its place. In some ways, that was a lifeline. It worked for a while.

Rasalom72 · 2016-03-10T20:55:51+00:00

Welcome aboard. Now read the side bar, and learn the rules. Formatting bitch... do it.

[deleted] · 2016-03-10T21:34:43+00:00

Most self-proclaimed MGTOWs don't even believe their own hype. It's all rationalizing not being able to get laid - despite wanting to. And they leave that out but it's so easy to see the posing it's a joke. Real MGTOWs CAN get laid and CAN get into an LTR or a marriage but may choose not to.

[deleted] · 2016-03-11T01:44:10+00:00

MGTOW implies a choice. It's not a condition of circumstance.

If a man claims he's MGTOW but has never been laid or has never attempted to improve himself as TRP suggests then as much as he claims to be MGTOW or hides under it's banner, he is not MGTOW. He has forgone the ability to go anywhere. He hasn't been anywhere to go from.

I've frequented MGTOW forums and found many TRP truths espoused there. To be sure there are angry men there but most have been through the ringer in their relationships and marriages and have simply decided to forgo those experiences.

I can say I'm MGTOW now because I've made that decision and it suits me. There was no giving up to get there. It was just my recognition that I value my own self-improvement and my own path over sexual strategy. P4P is liberating in that regard.

That being said, I would never encourage a young man to GHOW. That's a decision he has to make after exploring all the paths available to him.

I think I would advise him, however, to not marry. Which is, ironically, how most men decide to GTOW after they've made that unfortunate decision.

BlackJ1 · 2016-03-11T03:51:19+00:00

When I went to MGTOW forums way back before I found TRP I remember finding whole threads and posts of men just flat out hating women.

They may have changed over time but when I went there I believe it just puts oil on the fire for men who hate women.

TRP is completely different from that which is exactly why I visit here.

It not only gave me the problem, but the solution. It gives me the truth, flat out, overt, and un-obfuscated. TRP doesn't just tell you what's wrong, it tells you how to improve and live in a world that is increasing trying to put down masculinity and turn man into a docile utility.

Rommel0502 · 2016-03-11T00:12:27+00:00

RP is owning your life. MGTOW is throwing in the towel.

JP_Whoregan · 2016-03-10T21:02:39+00:00

You can sum up the differences between the two very succinctly; MGTOW is trying to change the world, TRP is trying to change ourselves. The former is impossible, the latter is completely possible.

Title	Defecting from MGTOW to TRP
Author	GuitarMatt99
Upvotes	23
Comments	44
Date	March 10, 2016 8:52 PM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/49vf3f/defecting_from_mgtow_to_trp/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/defecting-from-mgtow-to-trp.56891 https://theredarchive.com/post/56891

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