I got a bit indignant after reading "April's" slave labor rant.

The following is my response to her blog:

I'm a 40ish dad 3 kids, remarried, 2 with 1st wife and 1 with 2nd.

I recently read your slave labor "rant" and I felt the need to tell you how insulted I was reading it and that the overwhelming situational result of divorce ends in financial difficulty for dad.

I'm no deadbeat, my ex has benefited 100s of thousands of dollars in total from the divorce settlement and resulting support of which I am current. When my initial separation was forced upon me with a perjured restraining order, I spent nearly 18 months basically homeless, living off the charity of family members because of crushing support obligations.

It has taken me 7 years to return to financial normalcy bearing the financial encumbrance. I lost everything in the divorce and had to rebuild from more than $50K in the hole.

I had to work day and night for years while also attending college. It was excruciatingly difficult. Not once did anyone ever feel sorry for me. It was by sheer force of some sort of otherworldly will I can't believe I managed to possess, that I emerged from the hole dug for me. I can definitely understand how some fathers fail in meeting obligations and I take your characterization of your ex with a grain of salt. As a matter of fact, I just naturally assume you are actively slandering him in hopes this blog nets you a windfall.

The thing is... My ex said many of the things you say about your ex. She claimed I was a drug addict, never-do-well, loser and constantly put me down to anyone within earshot - including our kids. IT WAS ALL BULLSHIT. The truth of it was we were two people very unhappy with the marriage, both very sad and disenchanted with unmet expectations. The difference was - I was duty bound to the children to try and make it work and she was not.

She opportunistically used my guilt and sadness against me to crush me in the divorce and leave me in abject poverty. Then with the struggles that I faced afterwards, she used as proof to her claims.

In the end, the children did not benefit. They suffered. When you step on your ex's head to lift yourself up, you take a bad situation and turn it into a nightmare. There is no possible way to completely hide the tension and the children are definitely hurt and confused in the aftermath.

Ex-husband fathers are not an automatic means for a financial perpetuity you can manipulate for the sole sake of financial gain. The kids need us. You destroying us out of greed and a need for revenge destroys them. You're negative blogging about your ex hurts the kids. It's completely immoral and selfish of you. Shame on you. Even if the things you say are true, you owe your kids to put their father in the most positive light possible.

You think divorce is easy on us men? For us it is life changing in a profoundly negative way. The worst part of it all is, there are 100 or even 1000 guys like me, who have suffered as I have - who has seen his children suffer as I have - for every every woman who has to deal with an actual so-called "deadbeat". The whole notion of the poor-single mom is a farce and a horrible injustice. Not only do you have an income source from the ex in addition to making your own salary, you are now free to seek out an additional income source from another hubby if you were so inclined.

If we don't pay, our credit is destroyed, our driver's license is revoked and we are jailed.

Every single thing you have whined, cried and sought sympathy for on this blog, I have faced and overcame ten times worse. You would not have made it. I'm about as sick as I can possibly be reading this drivel. You're a bad actor in your scenario.

[–]5 Endorsed ContributorStayinghereforreal 73 points74 points75 points 13 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

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[–]trudatness 24 points25 points26 points 13 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

I spent 19 days in jail. Some time after negotiating the restraining order to a civil no-contact order, my ex led me to believe a reconciliation was a possibility. I foolishly fell for this coercion and went to the house. Nobody was home and I was greeted by the police.

They did not immediately arrest me, because with a civil no-contact order they did not have the legal right to do so. Only a judge can issue an arrest warrant in such matters. However, her attorney kept calling the police department and later that evening they called me and requested that I surrender myself, which I did.

It took me nearly three weeks to be able to post the $10K bail, the standard for "Domestic Violence" arrests. Three days after I was released on bail, the prosecuting office called me personally and informed me charges were not being pursed against me because it was a civil matter.

So I know what it is like to be jailed unjustly over a divorce, just because an ex was/is greedy and wants/wanted to use the court system to bully me.

In the film in the link that was presented, I guarantee that the ex of the gentleman in jail is fully expecting to live a life of upper class comfort at his expense. Whether or not he could truly afford it is left to speculation, but it's clear that the ex was willing to jail him repeatedly in order to ensure that she she receives her perpetuity for life.

To me that is unconscionable and quite frankly the behavior of a sociopath.

Are not women adults? Are they not responsible for supporting themselves like any other adult? I understand receiving a support figure for a period of adjustment, but a lifelong perpetuity is obscene.

In the case of the gentleman in the video, does anyone really think he's willing to spend six months in jail in a fight over child support and alimony? Jail is a terrible place, beyond description. It seems to me that the man probably is honest about his lack of earnings. Divorced men have a right to live in a relative lifestyle they have worked hard for and earned, they shouldn't be made to live in poverty in order to meet support obligations. They have to support a household of their own the children can stay and be comfortable in. Unfortunately, in many cases they are made to support two households which is a difficult burden for anyone to bear, especially in these economic times.

At the end of the day, the man really has no rights. Poverty, parental alienation and even jail are normal everyday occurrences in family law all being perpetrated in the name stopping the "deadbeat dad". For those of us who have lived through it, we see it for what it is, it's a marriage pension that serves no purpose other than satiating a former spouse's anger, greed and need for revenge.

[–]Repealer 8 points9 points10 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]trudatness 2 points3 points4 points 13 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

Well, the short version is this:

Get educated, start your career and build your bedrock assets first. Get a home of your own. Wait a little while until you grow fully into your adult brain. Develop fully your understanding of what it is you want out of life.

When you are ready, seek out a woman who is financially independent, one that has pretty much done what you have done. One that is intelligent, emotionally secure, is honest and generally interested in a marriage partnership.

The idea is you generally do not lose pre-marital assets in a divorce, you can only lose half of what was amassed during the marriage. So if it ends, as the majority of marriages do, you stand far and away less chance of ending up broke and in the street.

Also, finding a woman who is not looking for financial reward in a marriage, but rather companionship reduces your chances of being exploited.

If you marry some dumb bimbo, who's never had to support herself in her life, she's not going to all of a sudden become self-supportive when you divorce her. She's going to whine and cry to the court, and tell them that basically she's no better than a child and needs someone to still take care of her - and that person will be you.

The only way us men are going to hold women accountable, is by holding them to a standard. In order for you to be in an adult marriage, you must first live and conduct yourself as an adult. That's the criteria for consideration.

[–]junoguten 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 13 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]trudatness 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

Because I grew up in a home that had both a mother and a father and my parents have been married for over 40 years.

Having a family is actually a very rewarding experience, especially for the children.

Ultimately, I'm not a misogynist. I'm a realist. I believe women and men are equals and should be treated as such in every way.

Thus women are not inherently bad, but after ages of gender oppression the law has swung over into mode of overcompensation and gender protectionism. Society has conflicting ideals about gender equity and gender roles. All this together mixes into a heterogeneous mix of conflicting philosophies and ideals that place men (and children) at a disadvantage to the woman in the context of marital law. Divorce is now being incentivized and fathers and children are becoming victims of this flawed structure.

IMO, the goal is true equality, not a system of quasi-equality mixed with inequity and privilege. Ultimately the institution of marriage itself is a good and prosperous thing, that generates social stability. However, the laws governing marriage are deeply flawed and have transformed marriage into a modus of financial exploitation. Restructuring the law to place men and women on equal footing, both with equal parenting and property rights, should resolve many issues that families face.

In the end, as I stated earlier. Women who opportunistically exercise the rights granted to them under marital and family law are only doing so simply because they can. If men had those rights, instead of women, I believe these issues would still exist, only in the reverse. People aren't always properly self-governed, especially when the morality of an issue is made unclear by disinformation. That's why we have laws.

Marriage can be a wonderfully enjoyable experience and by all rights should be. It takes two people of the right mind to make that happen. As one gets older, one should be able to recognize and filter out the good from the bad. It's definitely not a thing one should enter into blindly, because as is pointed out on TRP, there are many self-worshippers out there who exploit it.

Today's man needs to be informed about the caveats of the institution. They need to fully understand the risks so they can make an intelligent and well-considered decision. If they decide not to marry, hey that's OK, but they should know the life of an elderly bachelor is a lonely and maddening one.

Otherwise, what is being advocated? The family structure of the orangutan? An apex male mating indiscriminately within a territory of subservient females? That's a fantasy. We are sentient beings, capable of more. There is great joy in marriage and fatherhood if done correctly. The goal shouldn't be to quit the game because you can't win it, but to ACTUALLY WIN THE GAME and do it holding the moral high ground.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 13 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

Dude. I'm 30 something and just got divorced. I have two kids. I did not spend 19 days in jail. 19 days?! Holy fuck! I gave her about 10% of the assets I accrued during marriage. I pay her as much money in one month as I make in one day. And I have the kids most of the time.

I did not get royally fucked in divorce. Not nearly 1/100 as fucked as you.

Even then, I would never counsel anyone to enter marriage. Not in a thousand years under the current system.

Marriage != companionship. Companionship is what you're suggesting and yes, everyone needs it.

It will take you a while to understand that you have been fed a vision of marriage that never existed. Your parents have been married because for them, it wasn't an option to be divorced. My dad seems to hint that he would not have stayed married to my mom even though she is a great mother. Now, they have made their peace with it and even enjoy each other's company.

This bullshit about the "moral high ground" is just pure bullshit. Again, why are men supposed to hold the moral high ground? Where was the moral high ground when you went to jail on false charges?

[–]trudatness 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago* (9 children) | Copy Link

You know why your dad stuck around? It wasn't because of indoctrination or lack of options. It was because he loved you and your siblings. Same as my dad. He certainly wasn't a castrated beta coward constantly whipped by my mother. He's a self made millionaire bad ass who retired in his late 50s. Alpha to the max. He could have easily dumped my mother 20 years ago, wrote her a check and spent the balance of his life drinking scotch and banging chicks half his age. He didn't. Why? Not because of dogmatic chains and societal shame, because being a family patriarch around the kids and the grand kids is worthwhile. There is real strength, pride and true happiness in having close family ties. It is a tangible accomplishment people have forgotten to revere. This is what I mean by having the moral high ground. That is the real richness.

If either of our fathers had taken the selfish road and bailed on us and our mothers, because of perceived greener pastures elsewhere, where would you and I be today? How would that have effected us?

This is the real reason we sacrifice. Not because we're pussy-whipped dipshits cow-towing to some overweight selfish cunt who constantly disrespects us, in hopes that maybe just maybe she'll bend over for us once a month when she's feeling charitable. Hell no. We do it because we love our kids and don't want to leave them. We have responsibility to our children. We never want them to experience the day daddy left and never came back.

Ruthless uber-selfishness isn't some transcendent pill one swallows to break free of a dogmatic prison. If you're just concerned about banging whomever you want and doing whatever the fuck you want 24/7, how does that make you any better than the pea-brained gold-digging cunts who pimp their kids out for the CS/alimony gravy train?

What's the difference?

You're still a person who puts your selfish instant gratification ahead of happiness and well-being of your children.

This is why marriage these days is a terror trap. Nobody sees it as means to have a family. Nobody sees it at as the preferred method to raise children and give them the best chance for success in life, to be there every day of their lives until they are grown up enough to go out on their own.

Everyone is game planning marriage as a means to an end.

If we do it too, what does that make us?

I'm not going to give up on the ideal. I'm going to continue to crusade to change the things that undermine and destroy the possibility for those of us who believe in a lifelong commitment, dedicated to children and family.

Of all the things you could possibly have in your life, the ultimate thing is self respect, followed by living without regrets. I keep my side of the street clean. Don't confuse that with weakness. It is not. It is strength. I learned a little later, obviously, but I still learned. Being a proud father, and the rock of which the family is built doesn't make you an easy mark for predatory females. GAME has many fields of play. How you run your deal is important. You don't have to be an absentee shitbag in order to escape a subservient beta existence.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago* (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]trudatness 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Of course they love you, but doesn't mean the divorce didn't hurt them. My cousin's parents got divorced (my aunt and uncle obviously). While I was going through my divorce, he told me the story about the day his father came to get his stuff and how incredibly heartbreaking it was for him. It was a surreal moment in my life just hearing the story, I couldn't imagine what it was for him experiencing it.

Make no mistake, the best situation for a kid is to have a stable, loving nuclear family with both mom and dad present. If there no possible way for them to have that, and you're lucky enough to have an ex-wife who is civil and sees real value in your active participation in the children's lives, then you try to do what you are doing. That's awesome that your kids have a conflict-free environment with free access to both parents free from interference.

Don't for a moment frame what you have as the typical norm. It's not. The typical situation is a nightmare, even if you've never been married to the mother. In the end, you're just an income vehicle, it's inevitable.

As far as I see it, you need to thank God every single day of your life that you have an ex that loves her children enough to recognize the destructive nature of vengeance and divorce conflict. You have no clue how unbelievably lucky you are. 999 out of 1000 guys don't have it the way you do. They just don't. You are not the rule. You are the exception.

The point I am trying to make is for men to empower themselves with the knowledge and the awareness of the potential dangers inherent in marrying the wrong woman. I fully acknowledge all the criticisms that is made on TRP. I really do. I am an outspoken advocate of men's rights. I fully believe that the philosophies of contemporary society as it relates to female privilege is fatally flawed and a cause for the corruption of the traditional family model.

However I still believe that a child who has mom and dad living under the same roof has an advantage and all other examples of family structure are problematic at best and run higher risks for the children.

In the end we all must do what we must, and the ideal may not always be possible. We all do the best we can and make the best of our respective situations. If we must divorce, we must. I'm not so sure I could ever advocate planned single fatherhood, though.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]trudatness 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link

People are too selfish and greedy, too caught up in their designs and machinations. When parents live separate lives, prioritization of the children's best interests is a difficult prospect. Coordination is not easy, just from a logistical perspective, when you sprinkle on the self-interest inherent in the wealth transfer that comes along with "parenting agreements" it creates divergent interests for the parents and the children.

What I've been saying all along is it's easier to have the children's interests be the highest priority when you remove the profit motive. Divorce should never become an implement of revenge or a means of upward mobility. How could it possibly be construed as positive for the children when it can be manipulated in such a fashion? In my personal experience it is not.

From what you describe, stability is what your children have. However, what I'm saying is the typical co-parenting result isn't always a win for the kids. I would say your situation is atypical. In most divorces and/or parenting settlements, mom tries to use the statutes as a hammer to hit dad over the head with. That results in anything but stability for the children.

So in essence, advocating "Don't ever get married, the preferred method is to have children without getting married and being a single father" opens up those that follow that advice to the inevitability of conflict, misery and financial trouble.

I'm going to stop short of saying "Don't ever get married because women are pea-brained, selfish, untrustable whores who just end up screwing you and your kids over for profit anyways." While it's certainly true in some cases, I'd say the problem resides more in a system that creates opportunity and a method of operation for such behaviors.

Child support should be completely done away with, except in cases where the mother or father is proven to be an unfit parent. The default should be in creating a distribution of assets (in case of divorce) that allows for each parent to have a home for the children and the parents share time equally and share expenses equally. I understand the counter "Living out of a suitcase" argument, but it's miles better than having the statutes be a means for one parent to wage war against the other. I've seen what that has done to my kids and I wouldn't want to wish that on anyone.

So lets say one of the parents has issues with substance abuse, or cannot hold down a job, or is an alientator who makes unilateral decisions, or whatever life management issue/emotional baggage they are strapped with, paying support becomes a motivator for them to get their shit together. Once they have their house in order (literally) then they can petition the court to order the default arrangement to be put in place.

Thus child support becomes a penalty for unwanted behavior instead of being a reward for it.

This is what I'm advocating.

I'm telling you that the problem itself lies in a system that rewards destructive behavior. Fix the system and maybe men like you, I and all the others out there reading this can feel a little bit better about the prospect of getting married, having kids and raising a family. We won't have to worry about betting the outcome of our lives on the whims of a significant other.

[–][deleted]1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]trudatness2 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You're in the fight whether you choose to be in it or not.

I'm no martyr. I got knocked down in the early rounds, sure, but I'm landing hay makers now. Life is a will to power. I'm not taking shit from anyone, least of all the bat-shit looney ex. My life is trending upwards.

And speaking of life... There's more to it than having a black book of sexually willing females. Been there. Done that. Got bored with it. Let's just say I'm not going to the grave with the regret of sexual unfulfillment.

It's kind of nice having a wife who is your best friend. One who's got your back. One that doesn't bust your balls. One you actually like being with. One who is eager to please you sexually. One who happens to make a 6 figure salary. It's not impossible to find a woman like that, especially if you are a reasonably successful, intelligent, attractive man who actually knows how to throw a dick and knows what the fuck he is doing with his life.

You have to look at life through a prism with greater forecast then the context of sexual freedom through your 30s and 40s. They'll be a price to pay later on for the freedom you have now. Just so you know. The piper will be there to collect as you get on in years. Be careful you're not too selfish in these days, because you'll spend the twilight of your years alone.

I've seen it. I've seen a few of these pitiful fuckers as they descended into the madness of life's regret. Fucking s-c-a-r-y shit man. But I digress...

I got divorced in my 30s bro. I had quite a good time with the being single part of it, but I wanted more. But hey that's me.

I'm not going to live saturated with hatred of women. That's toxic.

However, I'm not going to be anyone's fucking doormat either. Fuck that.

[–]trudatness1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]nakkya 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]RedeemingVices-5 points 13 years ago* [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]trudatness 15 points16 points17 points 13 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]LksdG2 10 points11 points12 points 13 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]trudatness 4 points5 points6 points 13 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

If the financial incentive for divorce inherent in family were removed, it would change a in rapid hurry, IMO.

Whereas the impetus in family law claims to be to protect the children as the primary concern, in actuality, the alpha and omega of it is money.

When the fiscal carrot is dangled, the interests of the parents and the children become divergent. It doesn't become about co-parenting, it becomes about exploitation. Predatory family law, i.e. exploitation, harms children.

The mistake many judges make is in believing the mother's interests and the children's interests are the same. They are not. The mother's interest, at the very least, is to benefit financially from the divorce. The children's interest is to have a loving relationship with both parents, free from interference. If mom is using the courts to drain dad of everything she can, there's no possible way the children will not feel the effect of it.

Wise and intelligent parents recognize that conflict is not good for the children. A parent who exploits the other parent for financial gain, especially to the point where it causes harm, is creating conflict for a selfish pursuit.

Divorce happens. The best possible result is for the parents to set aside their differences and figure out how to best provide for the children's needs in a mutually equitable - and mutually responsible manner. Sending dad to an efficiency apartment, while mom gets everything is just not a sensible solution. Both parents are equally important. Both mom and dad need to have acceptable homes the children can be comfortable in.

If the financial reward was removed from divorce, people (women) would not see it as a boon (starter marriage), and understand the reality of the responsibility they still have as parents to co-exist, co-parent and provide for their children's needs - except without the benefit of having the other parent live with you.

I guarantee the divorce rate would drop rapidly.

[–]LksdG2 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Title	I got a bit indignant after reading "April's" slave labor rant.
Author	trudatness
Upvotes	100
Comments	60
Date	August 5, 2013 8:38 PM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/1jril5/i_got_a_bit_indignant_after_reading_aprils_slave/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/i-got-a-bit-indignant-after-reading-aprils-slave.6109 https://theredarchive.com/post/6109

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