Too "red pill" for r/mensrights.

EeeeeeevilMan · 2014-10-04T17:38:06+00:00

I feel your pain.

I flit back and forth between r/theredpill and r/mensrights and parts of both subreddits frustrate me.

r/rmensrights doesn't see women correctly and buys into the politically correct bullshit that men and women are basically the same with different plumbing. But I like the attention they bring to legal injustices and the biased courts. Those are things that might actually be fixable.

r/theredpill sees women the way they really are. However, I personally don't feel like they're as concerned with the feminization of society and legal injustices as they should be. Most seem to take a, "just employ TRP in your personal life and rise above it" attitude. Except there's going to come a time, probably in our lifetimes, where society has skewed so far out of balance that even that won't work unless you're a full-blown movie star or something.

MorpheusGodOfDreams · 2014-10-04T15:47:53+00:00

Its actually a bit more complicated than that. The following are my thoughts on feminism (wall of text incoming):

On FEMINISM: in this country the feminist movement was born out of the women's suffrage movement in the mid 1800s, which demanded universal voting rights for women in America (the Nordic countries did it in the late 1700s). It started with a collection of people voting and campaigning against certain inequalities that existed with regards to opportunities between men and women. These old cultural norms were based on societal differences (Athenian Democracy) based on biological differences between the sexes. In the Revolutionary War (1776), wealthy landowning men fought and died in battles against taxes by the tyrannical British King George III and decided to create a society that was a Democratic Republic (with house representatives and senators chosen to vote on the important issues). The young country struggled to survive, and engaged in bitter feuds to sustain itself. In 1807, voting was expanded to include all white male citizens because the political parties wanted a larger voting base, and reasoned that "no taxation without representation" applied to all white men who had risked their lives. A little over 50 years later, women also decided that they deserved the right to vote, that they were citizens as much as the men were. Basic voting rights were campaigned for most by Susan B Anthony, and the movement achieved its shaky start. Women also campaigned for the right to go to college, and for equal rights all around. They argued that they would make better mothers if they could be more involved in society, and that it was a waste for a nation to not use 50% of its workforce. Most of these rights were conferred upon the women because they asked nicely for them, and their general role within the society remained the same. By combining with the abolition movement, women were able to compare themselves to slaves because of their unpaid labor, and eventually win over key representatives as they neared their goal. The white men instead chose to let black men vote 10 years ahead of white women. In World War II, women across the country were forced to enter the workforce as their husbands went off to war, and became accustomed to working with machinery while business owners became accustomed to cheap labor. This was meant as a temporary engagement in order to bolster the war effort, and women were expected to return to their natural state of affairs afterwards. Indeed, the 1950s was a time of prosperity and wealth for the country as both sexes took their natural roles to create strong families (baby boomers had to come from somewhere).

As the 1950s came to a close, new technologies like vacuum cleaners, dishwashers, washers, dryers, and microwave ovens had drastically reduced the amount of time and effort required in housekeeping. In the early 60's, male scientists invented "the pill," revolutionizing women's control over their own reproductive systems, which had essentially defined their very existence until this point in history. Freed from their natural role, women desired to be a permanent part of the male working world, and were helped along by political parties again wanting a larger voting base, and by capitalist Oligarchs who wanted more labor at a cheaper price. By again piggybacking on the growing Civil Rights movement, women were able to come together against "the patriarchy" to demand equal treatment and pay in the workforce, equal access to education and other benefits like abortion. Marriage was decried as oppressive and outdated, and women across the country prepared for a "battle of the sexes" as part of the 2nd wave of the feminist movement.

But nothing came of it. The leaders of the Feminist movement got married and had children, and the novelty of the pill faded after a decade of reckless sex and drugs, replaced with the feeling as if it had always been there. After the Civil Rights movement came to a near stop with the deaths of MLK and JFK, there was a power vacuum which the Oligarchs seized for their own benefit, instituting "trickle down" economic policy that would last decades. During their cleanup of the Civil Rights, these Oligarchs quietly bought and absorbed the Feminist movement, putting it in crappy magazines to sell copies and in colleges as useless majors for dumb women. They were able to pull this off by taking control of the source of the movement: the idea of "GIRL POWER!" (the thought that women are equal in all aspects, or sometimes superior to men, often synonymous with "empowerment") that women so eagerly wanted. The oligarchs focused in on this and amplified it to the point of absurdity, turning it into a drug for women and maintaining the status quo through constant victimization, which made the demand for "GIRL POWER!" rise exponentially. "GIRL POWER!" movies were made, and the constant use of the 77% wage statistic became commonplace. In reality all of this was an illusion, a clever ruse designed to trap women in a state of powerlessness by giving the fantasy of power and change, much like horoscopes. By minimizing and ignoring the reality that men and women are different, the Oligarchs were able to sell women an idealistic fairy tale that they could not opt out of, for fear of being labeled an enemy by other women, and in which constant reinforcement stimuli is needed like a drug that needs a bigger dose each time to achieve the same high. They maintained and encouraged the idea of women as objects to avoid responsibility, but also encouraged the idea of "empowerment" and freedom. They expanded the use of the word "patriarchy," which originally meant male controlled government, to a more nebulous and vague concept that was used to complain about all differences between the sexes. Today, most feminist uses of the word "patriarchy" can be replaced entirely with the word "biology," and still mean exactly the same thing. The overall result was women who only had self agency when it benefited them, but demanded respect at all times without earning it.

In the 1980s, Feminists had gained a majority of what they had set out to do by changing unfair laws and expanding opportunities for women. This led to a stagnation in which no visible progress could be observed because the remaining differences between the sexes were so engrained in culture that they could not be quickly changed. In order to re-ignite the passion and fervor required to keep the movement alive and relevant, new types of feminism began to emerge, which are often given the label as "3rd wave Feminism." Extreme radicals in the Feminist movement like Andrea Dworkin were labeled as such and avoided, while her writings (which accurately presented the movement's next steps) were considered heresy. Dworkin is famous for using the rhetoric of war to compare all PiV sex to rape, because it is equivalent to an occupation of territory. After escaping her first marriage to an abusive husband, Dworkin married a gay man and convinced him that his penis was a tool of oppression (which he wrote and published). Dworkin was heavily obese and depressed for a majority of her later life, and she believed in the fantasy of equality so much that she blamed both on men. She died in the early 1990s, not a martyr but a sad clown rejected for not getting the joke.

The great fault of the feminist movement is that it uses its power to legislate equality in a competitive environment, which is absolute proof that women are not equal at all because they cannot compete on their own (equal results instead of equal opportunity). Even after this (or because of it), the movement realized that people still don't think of the sexes as equal, so it tried to change social and cultural norms that are based on millions of years of biology and thousands of years of culture with about 100 years of "GIRL POWER!" Unfortunately, without studying and accepting biological realities (which are conveniently left out of feminist majors), the understanding of reality that many women have is weak enough to be taken advantage of by the Oligarchs, who continue to sell the never ending fantasy of oppression, victimization, and progress. This is an ingenious ploy that revolves around women's inability to admit truth. First, a romanticized statement of gender equality is made, ignoring the inherent differences and the reasons for the current state of affairs. Second, focus is brought to a difference in achievement or pay because of the patriarchy, and policy is enacted to force a change in order to reach observable equality. Third, when the policy change fails or has little impact, it is blamed on oppression and privilege and still considered a success, and the cycle starts anew. The greatest example of this is the gender-wage-gap. If women are paid less than men (77% comes from total average of US citizens, instead of comparisons between similar individuals), any business could save money by only hiring female workers. The only reason that a pay gap would exist after accounting for maternity leave, the difference in College Majors, and more dangerous jobs taken by men, would be because the employer values the labor of a man more. This is generally because men react better under stress, don't take criticism as harshly, are legally less risky, are more competitive, less catty, and don't bring their personal lives into the office with them (they are better at compartmentalizing). Instead of being hired for their skills, women are instead hired to fill a quota.

Let me know what you think.

[deleted] · 2014-10-04T17:26:18+00:00

[permanently deleted]

RedPillSafe · 2014-10-04T17:26:05+00:00

Can one be too "Red Pill" for this reddit?

Yes. If so, you go to /r/DarkEnlightenment

MRA's are a notch back from here, so I'd never be into "victimhood" for men.

If you go in the neoreactionary direction you are fighting as men towards patriarchy using Red Pill wisdom and history as your guide.

Time is on the side of the neoreactionary because we know it ALWAYS ends there. :)

WillClickOnAnything · 2014-10-05T00:03:36+00:00

MRAs are just loudmouthed betas that have spurned TRP. They're every bit as annoying as feminists. Why people seem to think there is some kind of alliance between TRP and MRA is beyond me. I imagine them just as I imagine most feminists. Fat, ugly, lazy bitches that are pissed at the world they live in and blindly flailing about trying to change things. The funny part is MRAs have exactly zero chance of changing anything, unlike feminists.

MRAs create people like Elliot Rogers buy reinforcing their angst and focusing it. TRP actually helps people like that improve themselves and teaches them to function in this fucked up world we live in.

throwaway68746 · 2014-10-04T19:04:27+00:00

It's "women's logic" taken to the level of a political movement, and unfairly seeks to advantage women regardless of what's fair, good, or honest. It's sociopathic.

Good point. You should really link to some content from tumblrinaction or something to demonstrate your point. Even just two positions of hypocrisy arguing for having their cake and eating it too are enough.

Reading all of this it isn't wrong, but you should really link to evidence in feminist arguments.

redpillbanana · 2014-10-04T20:34:34+00:00

Funny - I noticed this comment in /r/againstmensrights:

http://redditlog.com/snapshots/1075117

Mainly though just loving how popular that OP has become in MensRights given his TRP/UKIP/misogyny. Such surprising crossover.

Workchoices · 2014-10-04T22:45:53+00:00

Trp and men's rights are not the same thing. There crossover, sure they both exist in the manosphere and many people visit both.. But they are not the same thing,. They do not have the same goals.

PlusGoody · 2014-10-04T23:43:03+00:00

MRA is a reactionary and restrictionist movement animated by self-pity more than anything else.

TRP is a self-improvement movement animated by a conviction of human potential.

They intersect at deploring the use of the force of law to impose left-wing nostrums, but in little else.

They differ profoundly in their concept of male agency -- MRA sees men as helpless before the state whom they must beg for succor, TRP sees the state as changeable creature of a changeable culture, and self-aware men as an instrument of that change.

More importantly, they differ profoundly in terms of their basic posture to the happiness of women.

MRA would gladly reimpose social restraints of old that made women miserable and deprived of potential; it is ultimately a movement that no self-respecting father of a daughter or brother of a sister can embrace.

TRP is all about observing how people, including women, actually behave when they are seeking their own happiness. We don't celebrate the depredations of the cock carousel and hitting the wall, we actually want to be part of stopping them, and our own refusal to indulge them being a part of that. We don't want women to have to suffer the indignity of mating with a sniveling beta, we want to be the alpha that they want and (in a human rights sense) deserve.

Red_Shirt_Blue_Pants · 2014-10-04T15:38:20+00:00

The same shit happens here. Only difference is instead of gettimg called a mysoginist you just get called feminine for going against status quo. These are common ideas to this sub so I'm not really sure why youre looking for feedback.

WillClickOnAnything · 2014-10-05T06:48:39+00:00

Does anyone know of a way to filter out MRA flaired posts?

GhostOfAladdin · 2014-10-04T19:31:06+00:00

Victimhood by either gender is a poor choice. Disempowers the person immediately.

ShitLordXurious · 2014-10-04T16:50:31+00:00

FWIW, about half of the /r/MensRights posters openly identify as feminists.

Title	Too "red pill" for r/mensrights.
Author	ShitLordXurious
Upvotes	35
Comments	74
Date	October 4, 2014 3:30 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/2ia55w/too_red_pill_for_rmensrights/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/too-red-pill-for-rmensrights.22342 https://theredarchive.com/post/22342

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