Creating what never existed?

Triadis3 · 2017-07-31T08:09:41+00:00

The plan remains the same. Stay or go. All you can directly change is yourself.

You need to give her some time to get up to speed and realize the new you is not just a temporary act. You have been unconsciously conditioning her for as long as you've been together the the sex life you have now is adequate...that's a deep hole to dig out of. (No pun intended)

I made a post titled, "Captain Rambo" that illustrated the 1000 foot rope concept. That should help you a lot.

So, improve yourself. Allow her to realize the changing dynamic and come along for the ride. Otherwise you need to decide when to cut the rope.

Yes, it's possible. Maybe your wife has a hidden "inner slut". Maybe not. You got to get to be a guy who deserves to get his face fucked off every 2 days. She gets first choice. If she decides, "Nah", then you have a decision to make.

Finally,

Since you can't hyperlink, I'm going to copy paste a comment made two years ago by Jacktenofhearts that describes the dynamic better than I ever could. It comes from a comment on "Verbal intercourse is optional" if you want to search the thread........

The analog to a woman's sexuality is a man's attention. The basic transaction in male/female courtship is men trading attention and women trading sex. Every type of male-female interaction follows this. Little boys tease the girls they actually like the most. High school boys tolerate a shitty rom-com movie to get a hand job in the back seat in the theater. College boys put in the time to throw keggers so the cute sorority girls come by. And so and so forth.

So women typically react to undesirable behavior -- undesirable attention -- by shutting down sex. When your wife would observe the Blue Pill you, and took stock of the lumpy, slothful, passive person she called her husband, is she going to feel particularly attracted to that? If she going to respond to watching you waste so much attention on videogames or junk food, with sex? Of course not. It would be nice if women could communicate this, if they could plainly state, look, you're acting like a loser, and I'm not attracted to losers. But they can't, that kind of overt communication is not what they're used to. All they can really do is nag that you play videogames while they do chores, and then you do some chores, and wonder why she still doesn't want to have sex.

Because what happens if they do communicate it overtly? Our egos could take it if they said, "you're acting like a loser, please engage in some attraction-enhancing activities instead, even if they have nothing to do with me." But instead the women that do try and overtly communicate it say something like this: "we're not having sex until [you fulfill some condition that has nothing to do with sex]," which even some Blue Pill betas would consider that a "weaponizing sex" and a "damaging ultimatum."

Men are bad at covert communication, and women are bad at overt communication. So realize when Red Pill men are instructed to withdraw attention when their wife is acting undesirable, you're advising covert communication that they're very likely bad at. This is why we talk so much about "covert contracts" -- we're trying to speak covertly and then getting upset when our wives don't respond. Of course they don't respond, because we're bad at it. Which is why so many guys stumble in here, saying their wife shot them down for sex, they fucked off out of bed and tried to do something else, and their wives accused them of being "butthurt."

This is why it goes as poorly as a woman saying, "no videogames, no sex." Both situations -- the woman giving her husband an overt sexual ultimatum and the man ignoring his wife after he was turned down for sex -- invites feelings of manipulation, hostility, confrontation.

Should you withdraw your attention if your wife is behaving in a way that doesn't deserve your attention? Of course. What you should not do is clumsily bring your attention level from 100 to 0. Your wife is not entitled to your attention, but she is entitled to feel upset when you suddenly withdraw your attention after a pattern of years of giving her attention unconditionally. And if you just swallowed the Red Pill, as I said, you will not have the frame to deal with an upset wife who is pissed that you're changing the rules. Because you are, in fact, changing the rules. The reason why "a husband is not entitled to have sex with his wife on demand, unconditionally" is not a controversial statement is because this is accepted conventional wisdom. "A wife is not entitled to get her husband's attention on demand, unconditionally" is not accepted conventional wisdom. Your wife, and likely everyone else in your life, including yourself until you swallowed the Red Pill, really did think those were the rules. And this is what upsets people, just like "no videogames or no sex" also comes across as changing the rules. But "a sustained pattern of undesirable behavior resulting a loss of attraction and thus a lack of desire for attention and/or sex" -- those are pretty conventional rules too. Which is why a marriage counselor would completely support a wife who painstakingly described her lack of libido as being the result of all her husband's loser actions, but would scold a wife who gave her husband that "no videogames or no sex" ultimatum.

It’s simple…give the ‘hard no’ to her initiations.

And this is why I typically advise against newly unplugged guys doing exactly this. A "hard no" will come across as changing the rules, and this will piss of your wife, because you're basically telling her you were complicit in those rules until you stumbled across a subreddit and decided otherwise. You are absolutely entitled to withdraw your attention, but there are countless ways you can do so, over time, with much less confrontation and damage done to your marriage in the process. The classic method is not explicitly withdrawing your attention in direct response to undesirable behavior, but gradually adding activities to your life, activities that direct your attention elsewhere. Because what are the likely outcomes of these two scenarios?

Wife: "Do you want to get frozen yogurt and then watch some Netflix tonight?" You: "No, because you didn't fuck me last night." OR Wife: "Do you want to get frozen yogurt and then watch some Netflix tonight?" You: "Maybe another time, I've got my softball game tonight."

So yes, for you unplugging guys, your wife will turn you down for sex, and you'll be so tempted to leave the room and otherwise withdraw your attention in direct response. Don't do this. Take a deep breath, remain stoic. At that very moment, continue to do whatever activity you were currently doing. If you were watching a shitty TV show with your wife, finish watching that shitty TV show. Use that time to take stock of your life, to ponder how things got here, spending your evenings watching TV shows you don't like, with a woman who doesn't seem to like you very much. Start thinking about a plan to change that situation, and what kind of goals would indicate you're succeeding in that plan. Then, when the TV show is done, excuse yourself to go to the bathroom, then go to another room, and start writing down some notes for that plan. The next morning, your wife may want to kiss you goodbye before you go to work, as she often likes to do. You will be upset once again, wondering why she gets the attention and intimacy of a kiss while you get nothing in return. And then she'll text you inane shit during the day, getting pissy if you don't promptly text her back and acknowledge you'll do everything on that "honey-do" list. Once again, ponder how you got here, come up with a concrete solution to get yourself out, and until then proceed normally. Your wife asks you do run errands after work because you're a loser who has no friends to hang out with, or hobbies to pursue, after work. You start improving your life and your marriage by fixing that, not by abruptly not answering texts. Not answering texts is just going to piss her off and have her accusing you of being an asshole.

Are you an asshole simply because you didn't answer your wife's text on demand? Of course not. Do you have the frame to resist her calling you an asshole without losing your cool? Without DEERing? Without blurting out maybe you'd respond to her texts if she put out once in awhile? For a lot of us still struggling to choke down the Red Pill, the answer to those questions is "no." Until your frame is strong enough, then simply continue to comply with most of the old rules your wife perceives (ie. she is entitled to your attention unconditionally), while you act to subvert them over time.

Because your wife will ask you to do some annoying errand, and you'll say you have a softball game, and she'll get pissed off. Pissed off something else has a higher priority for her attention than herself. But those are easy enough Shit Tests to deal with, because you'll be arguing about softball, and you'll never have to say anything that sounds remotely close to, "you're not entitled to my attention." You will simply act, over a sustained and gradual period of time, in a way that changes the rules without even her realizing it.

Aaren_Augustine · 2017-07-31T08:23:42+00:00

But I can't stay married with the sex life I currently have.

Be the kind of man that gets laid often. If your wife doesn't fuck you some other girl will.

The_Litz · 2017-07-31T12:12:44+00:00

Our Open Marriage friend!

Glad you stuck around and are willing to put in the work. I will just add two things to the mix:

Don't compare your sexlife/gainz/weightloss/$$$/deadlift against other guys. There is always someone doing better and someone doing worse than you. You have an idea what will work for you, so stick to that but do not become obsessed with the numbers. At one stage I got pissy and butthurt because we had to bang one more time before the month was over to keep up my average of X times per month. It messes with your focus thinking in terms of numbers. Initiate when you are horny. I find it varies a lot for me.
Deadbedrooms sub. Only keep things in your life that add value. I doubt that sub will help with self improvement. I take a drive by there from time to time, just as a reminder from where I have come and how shitty my mindset used to be, nothing else.

stew7000 · 2017-07-31T08:16:40+00:00

Focus on you. There's definitely hope, you just need to be patient. Your wife isn't attracted to you right now. And that won't change for awhile. The sex life you currently have is your fault, and yours alone. You have to own it. Lift. Read. Be attractive (don't be unattractive). Lead. Beware of going red pill Rambo (read up on this if you haven't already). The toughest part is having the discipline to stick with the program and not expect her to be anxiously jumping into bed with you because you hit the gym consistently for two weeks. Patience and discipline. You got this.

creating_my_life · 2017-07-31T17:33:36+00:00

On top of that it's really vanilla and she doesn't like oral either giving or receiving

You forgot one part of that sentence..." with you."

Be a man she feels the need to fuck like crazy to keep.

straius · 2017-07-31T18:05:47+00:00

Regarding sex and willingness to do more, there are two components.

Your attractiveness (all things RP)
Her level of sexual repression

While you are at the beginning of RP, you will not be able to effectively measure or gauge point 2 because where her repression may start and your unattractiveness begin is impossible to distinguish.

As you become more attractive, you will begin to ferret out what is a deficiency in attraction on her part and what may be limited by repression.

Becoming more attractive is the only way to create the conditions that will allow her to express her sexuality more fully with YOU.

Be prepared for a long process. Don't build any expectations for a "wow" sexual encounter until you're sub 15% BF and showing good muscle definition/mass and you're passing shit tests and she's remarking on the "new you" consistently and feels like it's a real change.

Not all dead bedrooms involve sexual repression. It can just as easily be 100% lack of attraction. But if you do find repression to be an issue, then you will have some extra steps to take in helping her learn how to be your slut, take pride in being YOUR slut and not shut herself down in shame because "she's not supposed to act or enjoy acting that way."

That means being sexually confident once you get that far.

The most important thing is to realize it's going to be measured in months or potentially even a couple years. Make things easier on yourself by limiting your expectations. Keep them low.

A surprise improvement is more advantageous to your growth than a missed expectation (that may not have been calibrated right to begin with).

covertcontractor · 2017-07-31T18:23:06+00:00

Thanks for all of these comments so far guys. It's a refreshing change in tone from what I hear in the db Reddit, where mostly I'm advised to just nuke it. I suspect this is because folks there are a bit jaded by their own experience and are vicariously lashing out at their own partners through others. Also likely because they don't have the tools to do anything about it like we have here. Just some guesses.

jagged_edge_pill · 2017-08-01T06:02:26+00:00

I've read FR's of guys who are fucking between 5-7x/ week.

Maybe, or maybe not. Thats not the goal. You want to be the guy whom chicks want fuck . Once your SO figures that out, she will want to fuck you. If she still doesn't, someone else will. The goal is to be that guy.

man_in_the_world · 2017-07-31T09:09:07+00:00

Are there any FRs from guys who might have been in my specific situation?

Yes. Go to the top posts tab on MRP, select "all time", and go through the first several pages and read the "my MRP success story" ones, and you will find a number that are what you're looking for.

Edit: You might find FR: You're not the man I married by /u/sh0ckley particularly relevant and inspiring. Here's another one by /u/GargantuaBlarg29. And another one.

We look forward to yours a year from now!

GargantuaBlarg29 · 2017-07-31T11:12:21+00:00

I'd say the ratio of alpha turned beta guys and always beta guys on this sub is 50/50. I fell into the latter group. There was a lot of talk months ago about the battle being different for those who were never alpha, but like Triadis3 said, the path is the same. Fix you. Lead her. Decide if you're satisfied.

matrixtospartanatLV · 2017-07-31T12:07:57+00:00

When I read the OP I sensed....desperation, or, maybe a sense of urgency?

You want your wife DTF, and RIGHT NOW.

So do I. So do we all.

But time, in this case, cannot be fucked with. If you go too slow your nuts will explode or you'll rip it off during a furious fapping session. If you go too fast you'll have Capt Rambo stenciled on your name tag. That's where she divorces you because you have become an asshole, a pussy full of shit.

You've been married nearly 20 years. But you are ready to pull the plug if the sex doesn't change. So here's the guideline about time.

You need to be working the sidebar, every day, for about one month for every year of marriage. You are looking at about 18-20 months.

Let's change your perspective. Your post was written mostly about her, in relation to your burgeoning RP self. It's about you, and only you.

MRP is the process (sidebar) where you become a real man. Not an asshole, not a dick. You have those, but you are not those. A real man in the context of marriage is Alpha and Beta.

I'm finding myself wanting to tell you everything in the sidebar. I'm just going to tell you a few things about it.

First, one month of real work for every year of marriage. Pay attention to the dread levels, they are a good way to pace yourself.

Second, the books are great, but ALL of that other beginner shit is as important as the books.

Third, the sidebar is not linear. Think of it as a maze, there is a beginning and an end, but along the way you have to explore every dead end and collect whatever is meant for you to collect at each one.

Or a cube, a pure 3 dimensional matrix. You can enter at any point, and exit at any point. But the power you glean while in it comes from how many points you hit during your time inside. (I like that, I may have to develop that one)

So the standard Rx to swallowing the pill is lift-read-STFU.

If you post often, the seniors can tell if you've been reading or not. Do not skip the reading.

Now that you're here, and aware, watch the movie The Matrix again. It will help the references here be more meaningful if you have the movie fresh in your mind.

This problem is 100% your fault. That's why you put 100% of your energy into fixing YOU. Your car has a flat tire(wife) and the car won't start(you). You can pump up the tire(wife), but the car still won't start(you).

Some get so frustrated they go out and buy a new tire, put it on the car, and they find out the fucking car still won't start!

Use the sidebar to start your fucking engine!

Avoid the trap of mental masturbation in this subReddit. About a month in it's all I did. I learned a LOT hanging out in the locker room, but the sidebar is your field of practice. So spend a few minutes here getting dressed for practice, get a few tips from the seniors, and then yeah, get your ass out on the field.

screechhater · 2017-08-01T03:55:50+00:00

My short answer is read MAP by Kay, the BPP book on Dread

Start dread. Don't fuck around, dread level 1 tomorrow.

Don't be a pussy and poke around here begging and pleading for the silver bullet. It doesn't exist.

Put the work in. You will be shocked at the results. With her, but mainly you. I would like you to answer your questions in 8 months

BluepillProfessor · 2017-08-01T16:51:56+00:00

Am I simply misguided thinking this is possible?

No.

/r/deadbedrooms mostly agree

We would also agree- after a year of solid improvement. DB is a sub of whiners and quitters. This is a sub of do-ers. Which one are you? We have a very specific and detailed plan to follow that has a high rate of success. The trick is the plan improves YOU and makes YOU more of a leader. The wife usually follows but not always. More often the man decides it is no longer worth the trouble but most often of all the wife realizes that her deal with hubby is not so bad after all- even if she needs to step up the sex game a bit to keep her man.

stonepimpletilists · 2017-08-01T19:36:34+00:00

Considering we have a flaired user with the name 'fuckmrp' I wouldn't worry about how you appear.

Same path as everyone, read the sidebar, join a gym, see you in a month. Getting your dick wet will be easy. Unfucking how you think about getting your dick wet is what takes time

Title	Creating what never existed?
Author	covertcontractor
Upvotes	1
Comments	25
Date	July 31, 2017 7:18 AM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/askMRP
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/6qmuwd/creating_what_never_existed/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/askMRP/creating-what-never-existed.205777 https://theredarchive.com/post/205777

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