Manipulation.

FinnianWhitefir · 2014-06-05T15:18:52+00:00

That is the vast majority of my take-away from TRP. Women get to choose what they do, they can choose to have sex with you, they can choose to come along on stuff you're doing. It's really wrong and unhealthy to take on a mindset of "Women don't like sex, she'll never want it, men need to bribe/trick them into getting some".

Granted, I completely bought into that mindset before, but it's really insulting to women to claim they can't make their own choices and can be tricked so easily.

I think what you are missing is that many men are not at the "Women want to spend time with you" or at least not at the "Many women would want to be with you" and they need TRP ideas of "You are the prize", "Improve yourself until women want to be with you", etc.

AlphaAsFAQ · 2014-06-05T07:20:27+00:00

Why would she want to spend time with you if you are not desirable?

If you are happy with the way you are and how your life is going, forget self-improvement and keep on cruising. If you want things to change in your life then you need to change. The side effect of changing for the best is becoming more desirable and gaining attention.

HDThoreauaway · 2014-06-05T17:15:43+00:00

You ask a few questions here that could fill entire threads.

The first thing you have to do is define manipulation. I don't think convincing someone to do something, even if later they regret that decision, can be called "manipulation." I feel like manipulation must have some element of creating a false emotional obligation or debt. Men and women are both capable of doing that.

Is seduction manipulation? No, I don't think so -- it's more like a pump-and-dump fast-flip sales job, where you're the product that you're over-hyping. There's no manipulation because, while you want to maximize your perceived value, you're really clear what you're after. Now, pretending to be interested in a long-term commitment when you're not in order to have sex with someone is manipulative -- but PUAs don't seem to endorse that tactic at all.
Is it manipulative to get men to behave a certain way to get attention? No, I don't think that's true either. Before diving in to that question, ask yourself whether it's "manipulative" of men to want women to behave a certain way. Setting and communicating preferred expectations might be persuasive, but it's not manipulative.

If a woman wants to spend time with you she wants to spend time with you. If not you are being manipulated to behave a certain way. Not the other way around.

I'm not quite sure I understand whether you're saying this is your stance, or TRP's. Either way, I don't understand what you mean. Can you elaborate here?

Scymnus · 2014-06-05T10:10:47+00:00

The thing is you have to see the difference between concious and unconcious manipulation. Girls manipulate A LOT more than guys, but it's either unconcious or they rationalize it in some way. PUAs are concious manipulators, and succesful ones are able to beat women in their own field of battle. This scares the shit out of them, hence the shaming.

There are a lot of reasons why a woman would want to spend time with you, and if you can't see them you should re-read the sidebar. The whole self-improvement thing has it's roots in increasing your SMV, but somewhere along the way it turned into some feel-good bullshit.

Johnny10toes · 2014-06-05T16:43:34+00:00

Women are the biggest manipulators. Tears will flow, breasts will be accentuated and pregnancy tests will be falsified just to get what they want.

Reading No More Mr Nice Guy I did not realize that I was being manipulative. Now I see it as "Since my nature is manipulative anyway and I see almost everyone I've dealt with as being manipulative then I should find ways to manipulate situations in my favor." Now just as the other user pointed out it is being aware that you are manipulating the situation. Whether you were aware or not, every situation you've been in up to this point you have influenced it in some way. (Well there are situations beyond your control sure but that's not what I'm talking about.) So now why would you influence them to have a negative effect on yourself?

Title	Manipulation.
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	5
Comments	11
Date	June 5, 2014 7:13 AM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/askTRP
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/asktrp/comments/27d58f/manipulation/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/askTRP/manipulation.195309 https://theredarchive.com/post/195309

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