The Red Pill (The Movie)

Lethn · 2017-03-14T17:15:37+00:00

The fact that that's all your feminist girlfriend had to say about the movie is what makes it so special, Cassie Jaye did a really good job with it and because of that all Feminists can do is nitpick or make up utter lies and slander. If it were really an 'MRA propaganda piece' they would have been able to rip it apart without having to lie about it.

I think the movie could have definitely been longer and more detailed but it obviously only had a small budget, even with that though it's a very fair introduction at least to the world of gender and identity politics.

YaNumpty · 2017-03-14T19:05:53+00:00

I think the movie only feels longer than it is when you're sitting next to your feminist girlfriend, very conscious about what she thinks of it. I thought it felt more like 90 minutes.

It's worth considering that it took Cassie months of exposure to this stuff before she changed her mind (she was a fairly committed feminist, of course). It then took her being attacked by feminists to get her to actually drop the label. For much (if not all) of the year during which she conducted interviews she really had her guard up, and constantly felt the desire to bring the conversation back to women's issues. Were it not for her commitment to the project, I'm pretty sure she'd still be a feminist.

The following is taken from a five star Amazon review:

I admit, I was fully prepared to cringe at the ridiculousness of the Men's Rights Movement. I expected this documentary to be about a feminist going under cover and revealing hateful, women/LGBT-bashing men and the women who didn't know any better. Boy, was I in for a surprise... By the end of this journey, Jaye says to the camera "I no longer call myself a feminist." Take it for the grain of salt that it is. I highly doubt she's going to the other extreme, but it does point out fundamental flaws in how we discuss gender issues and this wave of feminism. I still refer to myself a feminist, but I can say my understanding has broadened significantly, and I clearly have much to learn about gender equality.

First of all, I disagree about the significance of Cassie dropping the label. To her this represented a fundamental change in her identity... the most powerful force in the human personality.

Still, I think this review demonstrates that The Red Pill will have a significant impact on open-minded feminists. Probably the main factor in their resistance to the message will be their level of emotional investment in feminism: i.e. the degree to which it forms a core part of their identity. A huge factor will be the level of intellectual integrity of the person in question. For Cassie, as a feminist filmmaker, losing this part of her identity was very painful, and she likened it to losing her religion. Fortunately, she's someone with a lot of integrity.

So to answer your first question: Yes! I really think it'll make a huge difference. I have a couple of DVDs on the way from America to give/show to some feminist relatives. I'm not expecting them to drop the "feminist" label any time soon, but it will open their minds up to issues of which they were previously completely unaware.

When I was at uni I debated a number of feminists. What always struck me was how little they knew about their opponents' platform. They tended to be genuinely shocked by many of our discussion points. Some of them had the integrity to realise that there was a lot they didn't know about gender-related issues and they'd only ever heard on side. (See the Availability Heuristic .)

I really like the AVFM slogan: "Changing the cultural narrative". I think The Red Pill can do just that... it's just a case of getting it out there. More newspaper coverage would be great.

There's a reason the feminists are desperate to stop people seeing this movie: Hence the outrageous lies, and ridiculous attempts to shut it down. They realise how powerful, and potentially impactful, this film is.

rg57 · 2017-03-14T18:36:21+00:00

It isn't going to change committed feminists.

But it WILL change those people who actually believe the feminist spin, and aren't aware what a load of crap it is, or what men are having to deal with. This sort of thing would have been an eye-opener for me about five years ago when I still assumed I was a feminist because I believed in "equal rights for women".

You don't fight your opponent to change their mind. You won't. You fight your opponent to change other people's minds.

Source_or_gtfo · 2017-03-14T19:18:11+00:00

It's pretty simple. Mainstream feminist theory insists (and has insisted for decades) on a "unidirectional" model of gender roles and therefore a unidirectional model of sexism (aka "patriarchy") - under which as long as any level of sexism against women exists at all, there can only be one "true" side to the story - women's side. Where men are a priori priveleged, women are a priori oppressed and all sexism is misogyny - which at best ensures the focus stays on women and feeds a lip-service promise of trickle-down equality for men (we've been waiting decades), and at worst is a carte blanche to push the most vilifying regressive stereotypes about men (aka "testosterone poising", sorry, I mean "toxic masculinity") based on an assumption that men are the cause of everything wrong with gender relations, that men are culturally the default gender aggressors and women are the default gender victims.

It's not hard to see why someone who holds a bidirectional model of sexism would see feminism as a major barrier to any meaningful activism for men's equality (which is necessary for women's equality to not equal female superiority). If feminists are hell bent on declaring someone who sees sexism as going both ways to be a misogynist, declaring someone who says women are equally gender aggressors and men are equally gender victims to hate women, of course MRAs are going to be anti-feminist.

The fact that someone who says men and women are equally to blame is seen as blaming women, that someone who talks about women with even a hint of the negativity with which it is commonplace for feminists to talk about men is seen as a misogynist - shows just how strong the bias in society actually is.

I suspect your gf didn't like Karen Straughan because her argument cut to the core of the issue, just how horrible and ultimately emotionally abusive it is to treat a bidirectional problem as a unidirectional one. That is why MRAs hate feminism. That is why feminism is the enemy, moreso even than conservative traditionalists, even though MRAs really do want full equality for both sexes.

TibsKirk · 2017-03-14T21:06:25+00:00

I would suggest giving her a few days to process the information. Then try to have a conversation that starts with: "So, we both agree that gender equality is the ultimate goal. How can we go about solving both the problems of men and women? How can we be allies here?"

See how that goes. If she dismisses men's issues as unimportant, then you might have a pretty significant relationship hurdle. But talking it through might also make the relationship stronger.

bufedad · 2017-03-14T19:09:19+00:00

Although she did say she wasn't saying men didn't have any problems

This is the best thing. If you can get them to (internally) acknowledge that men have issues, then they'll have a harder time dismissing those issues when they see them.

feedmecarrots · 2017-03-15T01:24:08+00:00

She may see things differently when she sees you, or a loved one, come to harm through discrimination.

2017-03-15T18:44:41+00:00

We don't need fems to watch it. We need society to watch it, then shun Fems for the backwards nazi cunts they are.

2017-03-14T17:23:07+00:00

The average feminist isn't intelligent or open minded enough to take anything from it, but it might spark something. We can only hope.

cymrich · 2017-03-15T17:15:56+00:00

it already IS making a big difference...

also Karen's bit about "people" vs "men" was all about the language used in general and the fact that feminists are the ones saying that the language of things is so important yet they apply it so selectively... if its something bad then its man this man that (manspreading.... even though women frequently do something similar with their bags and other belonging, or mansplaining when women do the same thing to men and men simply don't call them out on it)... if its something good... don't you dare put "man" in it! then it has to be gender neutral or feminine!

2017-03-15T21:40:50+00:00

https://www.change.org/p/university-of-calgary-rebecca-sullivan-publicly-apologize-and-resign-for-slandering-cassie-jaye-s-documentary

2017-03-16T05:08:06+00:00

The biggest success will be it's success.

Film makers will see that there is an un tapped niche in MRM and start making more films exposing feminism for the hate group that it really is.

The dollar speaks louder than the message.

Title	The Red Pill (The Movie)
Author	KexyKnave
Upvotes	17
Comments	25
Date	March 14, 2017 4:56 PM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/5zdbkl/the_red_pill_the_movie/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/the-red-pill-the-movie.929127 https://theredarchive.com/post/929127

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