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Does anyone wanna help debunk this garbage disposal? It's a radfem sheet that supposedly "debunks" every MRA argument and lays out why women are actually the oppressed ones

gregathon_1

February 9, 2021
55 upvotes
/r/MensRights
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-i6zYkIbnHqljJ6kw0aIlJu3qX_fsRSl6GOgnB1knbQ/edit#heading=h.ummxhn9m8x4h
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Post Information
Title Does anyone wanna help debunk this garbage disposal? It's a radfem sheet that supposedly "debunks" every MRA argument and lays out why women are actually the oppressed ones
Author

gregathon_1

Upvotes 55
Comments 27
Date February 9, 2021 12:27 AM UTC
(5 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/lfq4tl/does_anyone_wanna_help_debunk_this_garbage/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/does-anyone-wanna-help-debunk-this-garbage.834663
https://theredarchive.com/post/834663
Red Pill terms in post
feminismMRA
Top posts by gregathon_1

Just a little contrast on the male curfew, the same thing was imposed on black and brown people back before the civil rights movement in order to prevent them from committing crime and "harming white people"

1808 upvotes
March 28, 2021
/r/MensRights

Wikipedia's become a joke at this point

521 upvotes
January 29, 2021
/r/MensRights

Is this the tone of voice we need?

282 upvotes
January 23, 2021
/r/MensRights

American response about pierced ears on infants vs circumcision

261 upvotes
April 5, 2021
/r/MensRights

Meta-analysis of 91 studies finds that women commit higher levels of severe, 'clinical level' domestic assaults than men

260 upvotes
March 15, 2021
/r/MensRights

Sexism Factsheet; comprehensive list of discrimination

141 upvotes
January 30, 2021
/r/MensRights

Debate with Feminist who claims men don't face oppression

140 upvotes
February 17, 2021
/r/MensRights

Sexism Factsheet revised and expanded to include rebuttals to Feminist Talking Points

128 upvotes
March 24, 2021
/r/MensRights

Comments

[–]dukunt 39 points40 points41 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

There's a lot of misinformation there but it's a fucking long essay that I not going to read in its entirety. Let alone critique it.

I doubt that too many people will want to read that. Even the feminists. It's long winded and boring.

Pick your battles. I don't think this one is it.

[–]HeartOfSky18 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Reading it, in its entirety, gives the author exactly what they wanted... your undivided attention to her complaints, with zero reciprocation.

[–]gregathon_1[S] 9 points10 points11 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I think it’s just between pages 83-107 that need debunking. The rest is largely irrelevant to MRA.

[–]LettuceBeGrateful 29 points30 points31 points 5 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

I just opened it up for a second, and saw a "rebuttal" of the fact that more men kill themselves than women. Apparently, pointing out that suicide attempts are mostly women debunks this.

That's just...insanely dumb. It seems like the author is coming from a place of assuming that women matter more than men, which isn't really surprising.

[–]LettuceBeGrateful 23 points24 points25 points 5 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Replying to my comment like a goober instead of editing. I just flipped through it some more and have some random responses:

when women begin to work in traditional male roles in higher numbers the pay for those fields drop

The source notes that the jobs women are most keen to move into have more demanding hours. Men put in more hours on average than women, which not only leads to more gross pay for hourly workers, but it likely means men will be doing more work, building more competence, and earning more promotions. That doesn't mean women are any less capable. It just means they have different and equally valid priorities.

(Speaking for myself, I'm with women on this one. Life's too short to work yourself to death.)

Most rapes aren’t even reported so it’s likely the numbers for false accusations are even lower

Okay, but many false accusations don't make it to court either.

We live in a patriarchy (and not an equal society or matriarchy) because men hold the most power, authority, and wealth.

Women vote for those men in power too. Maybe female voters are voting based on those values, even if their preferred candidates are men? Also, it was an overwhelming male Congress that passed the Female Genital Mutilation Act, the Violence Against Women Act, has failed to make conscription gender-neutral, passed equal pay laws, legally gave women the right to vote, etc. Why are men as a group being vilified, but then denied praise for the ways women have been helped?

Film:...

This whole section on media and tech cherry-picks high paying white-collar jobs that are majority men. Unsurprisingly, there's no push for equality of garbage workers or plumbers.

Now that we have covered how women are oppressed by men in America

There is very little in this section that could be construed as oppression. Oppression is an act of subjugation. The mere fact that CEOs are majority male does not mean that the male gender is oppressing women.

Men don’t help their partners with household labour

As I expected, the source used here is taken out of context. As men earned greater income, women picked up a larger share of the household labor. Men are contributing to their families, just in a different way.

On a related note, 99% of rapists are male

This statistic only exists because feminists cooked the books and explicitly excluded female rapists from the statistics. The criteria for rape is forced penetration, and "made to penetrate" is treated as a separate category.

95% of perpetrators of homicide are male

So? The majority of the victims are male too. If you view the world as purely men vs. women, then this would seem like a coherent point. If you instead view the world as a collection of individuals, then ignoring the majority male victims is a glaring misandrist omission.

Studies show that [men dropping out of school at higher rates than women] is because women outperform men academically, therefore they are more likely to seek higher education

Despite earlier assuming that women are oppressed based on disadvantage, no consideration is given here to the idea that men might be systematically disadvantaged in schools, instead of merely being dumber.

86% of rape victims are women [...] 90% of all adult rape victims are female [...] 9 out of 10 rape victims are female (US)

More bad rape statistics. It's almost 50/50.

you have to understand that legally calling abortion “murder” makes every single miscarriage technically “involuntary manslaughter”

I'm pro-choice, but this is dumb.

Women are biologically superior

It'S nOt a sUpReMaCy mOvEmEnT. Seriously though, this is a weird section. I'm not outright disagreeing with the individual points. Men and women obviously differ in ways that benefit each gender. I do think it's notable that everything which disadvantages women is chalked up as oppression, while everything that women excel at (school, biological advantages, etc.) are seen as innate.

That's all. I'm tired. I should probably come back and source some of my points. In the meantime, if I said anything wrong, let me know.

[–]gregathon_1[S] 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Great job so far. Do you want to create a Google Doc where we write responses with sources to this?

[–]LettuceBeGrateful 9 points10 points11 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

If someone else wants to take my answers and drop them in a doc (and probably remove the snark), I'd be fine with that.

If we do make a rebuttal doc, I think it would be important to debunk that which can be debunked, and validate the rest. The goal of the doc should be to show that faulty logic is used to tell a tall tale of oppression and sweep men under the rug, not to strain to debunk every point or invalidate the ways that women struggle.

[–]gregathon_1[S] 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I already have a doc, if you have anything please make sure to add!

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XoVwXj8al1-cxUlPaoVmcX_5fD1Wh_mCZFgZeyfih_Y/edit

[–]Omar-Elsayed 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You should only allow access to anyone who gives you a pm of what they're going to say and keep a backup, because anyone can just go on it and change everything or erase it all.

[–]datatroves 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

More bad rape statistics. It's almost 50/50.

If your source is that paper where it discusses 'made to penetrate', someone from the CDC wrote a clarification to explain that number is incorrect. I have it around somewhere.

Apparently two different time frames got confused, or something.

About the trans in the article: yes brain sex is a thing, and the average radfem denies this by posting the same couple of authors (Joel etc) in a loop while ignoring everyone else who demonstrates otherwise. You can actually tell what sex a brain is 95% ish of the time. The ones that are vague are usually gay.

However, more recent research shows transwomen don't have 'the wrong sex brain'. It turns out that the original Swaab paper was mistaken (they were probably scoring off scrip estrogen) 25 years ago and no one has repeated it since. What sex atypical brain development was found was purely down to most of the childhood GD cases being gay as adults, and gay adults have 'intersex' brain development.

About three papers have shown this now, one is here.

And if anyone is bothered, transwomen are mainly (now) heterosexual adult makes who never had childhood GD. They hav quite normal male size and strength and sex/violent offending behaviour. I have the numbers for UK and the USA on this. There's also quite a list now of this group sex offending in loos, changing rooms and prisons.

Radical feminism is basically an offshoot of Marxism. It's core tenet, like Marxism, is that all differences are down to environment. Nothing that challenges that is allowed.

About the female biological supremacy: having a second X chromosome does protect from an awful lot of genetic diseases and normalises IQ and behaviour. That's about it's limit though.

It's probably the reason why you have twice as many male special ed kids, and it's a big contributor to higher male offending behaviour. Some genes on the X chr cause violence and/or low IQ in men but not women, probably because a second X chr fixes the defect (fully or partially).

Fragile X is a good example.

[–]gregathon_1[S] 8 points9 points10 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

The author is extremely sexist, if you look at the last pages she talks about the "biological superiority of women" furthermore, and she is famously misandrist and transphobic.

[–]LettuceBeGrateful 6 points7 points8 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Yeah, I don't know if you saw my other comment, but I replied to my own comment to respond to bunch of stuff, including that section. tl;dr She attributes any female disadvantage to systematic oppression, and any female advantage to inherent superiority.

I'll have to check out the author. I didn't know it was written by a known individual.

[–]gregathon_1[S] 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, sorry, I didn't see your other comment.

[–]Men-Are-Human 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

The suicide attempts thing has been debunked too.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

To me this reasoning is bizarre these people truly believe we have an epidemy of women failing to committ suicide LOL.

[–]short_dude5ft3in 3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I took a quick glances on some of their references, I don’t think those are legit sources. Would need a thorough reading and need to look for actual studies or statistics rather some pdf documents source or websites that could have been written by another radical.

[–]Keddsy 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

FFS I hate this whole who has it more worse bullshit. Each sex has its own issues. Rather than destroying one side and saying you're more oppressed we should acknowledge and resolve those issues. Just complaining you're more oppressed is stupid and doesn't accomplish things.

Change won't occur if your attention is to point out you're more oppressed and not attempt to resolve things. We are all human and need to treat each other better.

Do women face issues? Sure they do. Do men have issues as well? They sure do, they are just different.

[–]gregathon_1[S] 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

When I have I argued who is more oppressed? It's just that the author of the article make some really sexist and stupid claims like that women are biologically superior or that men face no issues.

[–]Keddsy 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Didn't say you did. Your post said they wanted to debunk men's rights issues because they are more oppressed.

I'm saying arguing over who is more oppressed doesn't resolve anything.

[–]gregathon_1[S] 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I understand, but the author spreads misinformation which needs to be corrected.

[–]Mr_Swil_Phift 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Feminists mainly argue with emotions and not facts, if you prove them wrong they will still refuse to realize that their emotions aren't evidence for their crooked cause

[–]DubsPackage 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The first third of the document is gratuitously transphobic with the agenda being that she is promoting women being treated as a special and protected class, and for trans women to be excluded from this class.

The second third of the document is gratuitously misandric with the agenda being that she is promoting women being treated as a special and protected class, and for men to be excluded from this class.

The final third of the document is gender-supremacist drivel and dunking on Y chromasomes, and why nature made a mistake in not making the human species female-only, and that we should correct this oversight thru science.

In its totality it is narcissistic, self-serving, narrow-minded, lacks depth and context, and never once treats men and women as family units but only as self-serving hyper-individualistic units of consumption. There is no regard to the human condition, greed, want, or the shared history of the human race to survive up to this point, and treats modern times as the only metric that counts, as if machines, robots and technology fell from the sky, it also takes male contributions to humanity for granted assigning men zero value for those contributions that have made women supposedly "independent."

However the most aggregious attribute of this document is its complete lack of self-awareness, showcasing an affluent, over-educated intelligence bereft of wisdom or any desire to know anything different from what it has already been indoctrinated to.

It is pointless to debunk a document designed for mushrooms.

[–]peteypete78 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Jesus what a shit show.

Transphobic start, anti porn based on how it effects boys 10-14 (well yeah they shouldn't being viewing it) statistics from studies that are at least 10 years old and many 20+.

Homeless section I think can sum up the sexist viewpoint they hold.

Single men are more likely than single women to become homeless. However, 34% of the homeless are families and that 84% of those families are female-headed. Homeless women are far more likely to be responsible for the care of a child under the age of 18 than a man (https://greendoors.org/facts/family-homelessness.php).

When you look at the link it states

"The typical sheltered homeless family is comprised of a mother in her late twenties with two children."

The important word here is "sheltered" women will have access to for more resources to be sheltered than men this is why more men are homeless.

All in all its just the typical tripe radfems throw around and no matter how much you prove otherwise they still stick their fingers in their ears and scream Reeeeeeee.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

Sorry but the u.s homeless statistics are simply unreliable, they use a very wide definition of what homelessness means so the number of people experiencing homelessness and the female percentage is greatly overestimated.

Homeless population is around 12% female.

[–]Oncefa2 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

There's a difference between someone who's homeless but can live with friends and family and someone who's actually on the streets with nowhere to go.

In the UK they use the term rough sleepers for this, and 80%+ of "rough sleepers" in the UK are men. There are also stats for people who die due to being homeless (freezing to death, dying of exposure, etc) and 90%+ of those deaths in the UK and US are men.

Obviously someone who lost their home and has to move in with their family needs help, but it's not what people typically think of when you talk about homelessness.

Even by US standards though, 70% of the homeless are still men. The only thing the author did was selectively talk about families who were homeless, noting that many of them are ran by women. They admit that single men are more likely to be homeless, they just kind of gloss over that and act like families being homeless are more important. Probably because they don't think single men are worth anything (a lot of people only think men have value if they've been chosen by a woman to be their boyfriend or husband).

[–]Bara-enthusiast 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Psychology today source: Women are more emotionally intelligent

Me: Socrates said women are defective men. Our sources are equally trustworthy

[–]AppleJuicePro 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

And you still think men and women have a future side-by-side? You all think it's worth the risk shacking up with a woman and all her legal advantages?

MGTOW MGTOW MGTOW!

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